Cast on Crit is degenerative.

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SybilCut wrote:

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One single thread LOL You have a ZERO clue of how they nerf things do you?

you have really shitty arguments, but thanks for the bumps.

Can't counter me can you? One single thread oh man you're GOING TO BE ON A CRUSADE BY YOU AND URSELF how's that going to come along?

Nice crusade you got here.

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SybilCut wrote:

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RagnarokChu wrote:

Okay for real guys let's take a step back and look at what can CoC actually do that is "broken."

There is ONE build that CoC build is even somewhat better than self-cast, and that's either discharge (Which requires you to have ton of exalts and very high end gear to be "broken) or bladefall which is broken anyway.

The issue isn't necessarily the power level. It's powerful, yes; but the core argument is in the fact that it harshly limits GGG's spell design capability, hence "degenerative". Historically you also had Shatter Chuck which was nerfed. And when Bladefall is nerfed, it will likely still be a core component of a lot of Cast on Crit setups.

The issue is that any time GGG creates a new spell, especially one with a setup and high payoff, it can be potentially ignored as a self-cast tool and slotted into a cast on crit build because there are no checks on cast speed that are traditionally important to a caster's damage output (AND emotional satisfaction).

The main issue I have with your argument that we are nerfing "CoC" for something that doesn't even exist yet (Future possible skills). All the problems that CoC had were carefully nerfed over the game's history (small cooldown timer for spells per CoC, massive improvements to self cast, ect)

Your argument also applies to something like bladefall (new ability that CoC) can use, but that's because the ability is so inherently broken anyway that you can steamroll the game with it with no acutal effort. After they nerf it, so what people still use it for CoC? It wouldn't be broken at that point.

As of lately all projectiles spells do not work well with CoC over self cast, nor you cannot channel anything with CoC. Anything that requires specific gear for a certain build is undoable for CoC since after the mass crit chance nerf you require so many specific items for CoC to get going. The only valid method left of procing CoC is cyclone which makes you go full retarded and spin on top of groups of enemy hoping to crit unless you have very high end gear to make it somewhat reliable. The other method is "barrage" which was massively buffed by the new gems but is still only used for discharge or bladefall and not even the projectile sytle of CoC.

It seems there are alot of check and balances already done with CoC, if your going to change the mechanic of it then please do share your idea.

"

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SybilCut wrote:

"

One single thread LOL You have a ZERO clue of how they nerf things do you?

you have really shitty arguments, but thanks for the bumps.

Can't counter me can you?

I'm not trying to because you're not saying anything of value. You're not actually refuting anything in any posts that have been made, you're just saying there isn't a high enough volume of complaints to justify any changes regardless of the points having been made.

I'm not trying to start a "crusade", either. I'm pointing out an issue that exists within GGG's spell design and will continue to exist going forward as they want to implement new spells into the game and have to tiptoe around cast on crit's "exploiting" (for lack of a better term) a given spell outside of its intended use. It's valid feedback in the feedback forum. But keep bumping this thread if you like lol

Ragnarok have fun with him this is some funny ass shit.

It would be really tragic to see cast on crit disappear as a viable build option.

We see it with barrage, molten strike, blast rain, cyclone, kinetic blast, spectral throw...

It's a really interesting and different customization vector. And it's only possible because PoE has robust system mechanics. This sort of complexity is one of the main advantages GGG has over Blizzard with their extremely streamlined/dumbed down D3.

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RagnarokChu wrote:

The main issue I have with your argument that we are nerfing "CoC" for something that doesn't even exist yet.

To be honest, you are being very short sighted. Designers are often very careful of implementing concepts that restrict future ones. For example, if GGG were to want to implement a sort of meteor skill, it would likely need to be a channel, which would leave it very similar to flameblast in playstyle. As it stands, a skill like Meteor would exist to be cast 20 times a second.

Or basically any sort of AoE skill, honestly. It all has to be balanced around how quickly you can spam it using damage scaling that isn't even caster appropriate.

I'm also not talking "nerfs", I'm talking rework. Whether that ends up a nerf or not would be seen. Neutering a skill that Im certain a lot of people hold dear would have a lot of backlash. What they'd need to do is modify it so that it reopens their ability to create large, high impact spells again. Scrotie had a good suggestion, that the gem actually take the spell's cast speed into account somehow. Otherwise, pardon my phrasing, but this shit is silly.

CoC is not OP (esp. in HC) but the result of a terrible design decision.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/789593
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/631591
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/556064
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1177823
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1076465
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1323221
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/810763
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1046581
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/960181
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1482640

Sone are actually complaints about performance issues. Why? BECAUSE COC FUCKING OVERCHARGES YOUR CAST SPEED! Where do you think the lag comes from?

lag comes more from status aliments applied 100s times a minute than gfx vomit. the wildly varying size of packets sent via network also removes any kind of optimization. as long as a build can hit so frequently so many mobs and apply stuns/freezes/shocks/ignites (each one 'costs' some network traffic) so long there will be 'no cocs' parties

gfx lag is only an icing on the top

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SybilCut wrote:

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

The main issue I have with your argument that we are nerfing "CoC" for something that doesn't even exist yet.

To be honest, you are being very short sighted. Designers are often very careful of implementing concepts that restrict future ones. For example, if GGG were to want to implement a sort of meteor skill, it would likely need to be a channel, which would leave it very similar to flameblast in playstyle. As it stands, a skill like Meteor would exist to be cast 20 times a second.

Or basically any sort of AoE skill, honestly. It all has to be balanced around how quickly you can spam it using damage scaling that isn't even caster appropriate.

I'm also not talking "nerfs", I'm talking rework. Whether that ends up a nerf or not would be seen. Neutering a skill that Im certain a lot of people hold dear would have a lot of backlash. What they'd need to do is modify it so that it reopens their ability to create large, high impact spells again. Scrotie had a good suggestion, that the gem actually take the spell's cast speed into account somehow. Otherwise, pardon my phrasing, but this shit is silly.

Did you not read the rest of the post, I clearly listed all of the types of attacks that CoC already do not work well for.

You cannot "spam" meteor 20 times a 2nd because of the internal CD of CoC (you cannot stack xxx attack, coc and 2-3x meteor spell). A meteor type spells already exists, it's called stormcall and it completely sucks ass for CoC.

All AoE spells but discharge and bladefall as of current suck ass with CoC, you do not need to be an magical oracle to figure out that any similar AoE spell do not work well with CoC.

You cannot casually add any old spell to CoC and have it be extremely good anymore, self cast is ultra good now. CoC requires many specific pieces of gear so any build with better gearing option will be better off self casted.

You talk about designers are often careful about implementing concepts but clearly do not understand you long sailed the "nerf CoC" boat because it has been already fixed to not be broken.