Cast on Crit is degenerative.

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RagnarokChu wrote:

Debates should involve actual realism and logic with the pre-existing world, not theoretical shit that doesn't apply because there is preexisting evidence and rules ahead of time.

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SybilCut wrote:

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RagnarokChu wrote:

Debates should involve actual realism and logic with the pre-existing world, not theoretical shit that doesn't apply because there is preexisting evidence and rules ahead of time.

you seem not to understand the argument at all. it's not about cast on crit's power level and what it is or isn't broken with. it's about its consequences on spell design.

wanna hear my ultimate debate tactic since you clearly aren't getting the point?

you're dumb. jesus.

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RagnarokChu wrote:

It has 0 consequence on spell design because it already has been changed or nerf to already not hammer spell design.

Like dafaq you been at, I even literally pointed out the multiple forms GGG implemented to the gem and current design that already limited CoC to basically never break the game again.

I did win because you already just resorted to personal attacks and clearly just dismissing the clear points that you have yet to acutally disprove that there aren't already systems in place keeping Coc in place. If you actually want to change CoC please come up with some ingenious better way then the systems in place.

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First time I used a trigger and found it was not only mana free, but also bypassed cast time I was like WTF? Mana-free, instant casting spells!

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RagnarokChu wrote:

It has 0 consequence on spell design because it already has been changed or nerf to already not hammer spell design.

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Demonoz wrote:

Do you guys saying COC hurts the game and spell design even play COC?

First off to even think about running COC you need a shit ton of crit as well as power charges and since the best way to accomplish this is to stick to top of the tree which means getting things that are vital to survival like life and Armour isnt happening. this results in a glass cannon build the relys heavily on leech. And seeing as how leech was severally nerfed since 2.0 its not always a dependable mechanic for survival ESPECIALLY on single targets like boss's. The only ways to accomplish solid defenses with a COC build is investment into gear.

Then you have Discharge... Again the defenses is always going to be an issue because you must run a 6L Voll's Protector and then if you want the insane procs you speak of you must also run the very expensive Voll's Devotion. AND unless you want to really drop some insane currency on gear all with accuracy rolls then you must also run a Vagan Dagger which once you regal about 20+ to even get one to hit a good 2nd roll so its worth investing another 2Ex into multi moding then and only then will see the insane procs.

Another thing not being considered with COC is sure we cast tons of spells but we are casting gimped spells with no links on them other than leech. For example my Bladefall on my current COC spec top out at around 4.6K DPS tooltip but when i was self casting it on a 5L i was pushing nearly 20K easy and it wasnt even lvled yet either at the time. So you MUST cast your spells a shit ton of times for them to be effective because you always casting gimped versions of them that are unlinked.

From a balance perspective i just dont where its a problem. Its takes a TON of investment to make it work and even more investment to make it OP. And theres a hell of alot more you have to do on a GOOD COC build than just spam one button if you are seriously trying to do high end content with it. Otherwise youll see LOTS of RIPs and -10% exp on a constant basis. And even when played correctly you still see RIPs to random shit because you just dont pull the defenses you can with other builds because of the investment into Crit, Attack Speed, and Power Charges leaving whatever is left over to invest into the defenses of the build.

I mean its not like this is a Gem you slap it on any ol build and it instantly makes the build OP... THEN it would be broken. The gem requires in most cases a pretty heftly investment in Gear, Tree, And gem slots to make it all come together unless you are running a version that constantly dies all the time anyway.

Like the build ive been running now.... with all the shit ive had to do to get it to the point its at right now and it STILL has a long way to go to be able to do Uber (Its just now clearing the apex comfortably) I could have MUCH easily just stayed Self casted Bladefall.. And been doing a hell of alot more damage, Have a shit ton more survival, AND it would be playing a ranged build which equals survival on its own. I wouldnt need the vagan dagger instead i could be running on of the nice spell/spell crit daggers i have and a spell crit shield and all that and but probably clearing the Apex along ass time ago and not have half the shit invested i do now time and currency wise.
Not to mention i would also probably be about 5 lvls higher since i wouldn't have died even half as many times. Theres alot of work that goes into COC to get it going period. Its an interesting mechanic with upsides as well as downsides.

And as far as its effect on new spells... Well as we can see with Bladefall and Blade Vortex if new spells are balanced properly to begin with then COC has no bearing on new spells what so ever.
And if they want to introduce a new spell that would have an adverse effect when run on COC that is intended for self cast only then it can simply be made that way just like Flameblast and Incinerate.