Cast on Crit is degenerative.

"

CharanJaydemyr wrote:

You've still bought into the basic philosophy of it.

And that's fine. That's precisely where the game is now.

The few times I've used CoC it was with wands anyway. That feels awesome to me: barrage to trigger lots of weaker spells is VERY wandslinger.

But allowing CoCS to work on other weapon types, particularly daggers obviously, was a big error on GGG's behalf. That enabled not only massive discharge of spells for very little mana, it also, as others have noted, really highlighted how shitty the graphics optimisation is because crit=status ailment and mass status ailment=melting gfx card.

PS If it's 'not a problem' now, it sure as fuck will be with the Assassin in play...

I mean if you want to be fair the only use of CoC is technically wands and only reason why cyclone variant even exist is because of vagan cannot miss mods. Otherwise the barrage variant would be the only one used.

Also I have 0 idea where this "little mana cost" comes in, all CoC variants have int equal to or higher then average spellcaster builds, they run 2x -7 or 8 eleron rings and mana on hit jewels to sustain their ability. They massively and heavily invest in mana regain/reduce mana cost and even run clarity compared to a normal spell caster build.

I mean it's okay if you never actually played CoC but you can easily look into the latest guide people post about it to see what they are about.

Actually the "Inquisitor" from the templar would actually be the best for CoC, even more so the Consecrated Ground being godly for damage/reducing the drawbacks of me facetanking stuff with discharge and the entire rest of my tree massively increasing elemental damage/peneration on crit. With Critical Strikes ignore Enemy Elemental Resistances being beyond godly.

"

CharanJaydemyr wrote:

It was problematic from the start, Sybilcut.

I maintain it should have been locked to wands somehow. Wands get decent base crit chance and thus would have functioned like catalysts for wandslingers a la artificers from 3.5e D&D onward: you sacrifice spell power for more spells stored up in wands.

But that ship has long sailed, cruised idiotically into a surprisingly large ice cube and plummeted to the depths, carrying the likes of I_NO into the watery hell of one-click-spam with it.

CoCS was one of GGG's biggest mistakes.

I disagree. CoCS is a great addition to the game. There's a lot of moving parts to a viable cocs build and it's quite satisfying to put together and play. For a game about character customization this sort of build complexity is absolutely wonderful. It and stuff like it gives PoE a major advantage over other games in the genre.

There might be a balance issue with cocs + vagan's daggers + multimod (or other one hand melee weapons) but not daggers (or melee weapons) in general. Imagine if there were vagan's wands or bows?

In general wands are actually better than bows for cocs with all things considered, since you can use a shield (so from a balance perspective it wouldn't be that meaningful to make cocs become wand only vs. bow + wand). Legacy windripper is competitive but very expensive. It's quite fun actually, windripper + blast rain + cocs + directional aoe skills (bladefall, glacial cascade, flame surge). <-- used to be bow + cocs + split arrow + ek + ek + ek + ek/chain but that was fixed. Thankfully more spells have been added and there are enough options that we don't need to use the same spell multiple times anyway.

I'd hate to see GGG scuttle all cocs builds if/when they address cocs + vagan's dagger + discharge.

This thread is hilarious all of these "facts".

Anybody who thinks CoC doesn't warp and influence spell balance and design is beyond kidding himself.

Peace,

-Boem-

IMHO, all "Cast On" and "Cast When" support gems should have a cooldown.

If CWDT has it, all other should have it. Simple as that.

"

npavcec wrote:

IMHO, all "Cast On" and "Cast When" support gems should have a cooldown.

If CWDT has it, all other should have it. Simple as that.

But... it does have a cooldown. 0.05s, or a max of 20 procs per second.

You can argue that it doesn't have a meaningfully (high) cooldown, but that's a different thing.

Cast on Crit has been nerfed countless times already to the point where some variants of the build like lowlife ones has become absolutely useless. Now this community wants to get rid of the actual gem because its "not good for game health" without even looking at how terrible (GGG calls this balanced) CoC builds are now compared to before. The drawbacks that come with the build adds up on every major patch and its really gotten hard to make it work to my standards in end-game. But hey it casts more skills per second than I do, so hell its totally broken and shit.

If I was GGG I would have gone with the following gem and not have CoC at all:

Spellstrike
Mana Cost Multiplier: 100%
Supported Melee Attacks Cast Supported Spells on self when used
Cannot support Projectile Spells
Mana Cost of Supported Spells added to Supported Attacks
(25-6)% Less Attack Speed [gemlevel]
(0-10)% increased Area Damage [quality]

"

CharanJaydemyr wrote:

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

If I was GGG I would have gone with the following gem and not have CoC at all:

Spellstrike
Mana Cost Multiplier: 100%
Supported Melee Attacks Cast Supported Spells on self when used
Cannot support Projectile Spells
Mana Cost of Supported Spells added to Supported Attacks
(25-6)% Less Attack Speed [gemlevel]
(0-10)% increased Area Damage [quality]

Eh? So basically it wouldn't affect the cost at all?

Yes it would.

Peace,

-Boem-

Pure builds are much better anyways, I don't know why OP is complaining about CoC. It's a fun Gem, let people have fun.

"

Boem wrote:

"

CharanJaydemyr wrote:

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

If I was GGG I would have gone with the following gem and not have CoC at all:

Spellstrike
Mana Cost Multiplier: 100%
Supported Melee Attacks Cast Supported Spells on self when used
Cannot support Projectile Spells
Mana Cost of Supported Spells added to Supported Attacks
(25-6)% Less Attack Speed [gemlevel]
(0-10)% increased Area Damage [quality]

Eh? So basically it wouldn't affect the cost at all?

Yes it would.

Peace,

-Boem-

Pretty much. So if you were trying, say, Cyclone + Spellstrike + Ice Nova + Faster Attacks + Concentrated Effect + Controlled Destruction, all gemlevel 20, the calculation would be...

Cyclone component: 12*1.15*1.4 = 19
Ice Nova component: 31*1.3*1.4 = 56

So it would cost 75 mana per activation, and you'd get 1 guaranteed Cast of Ice Nova every time you pay the mana cost for Cyclone.

Currently the same links with CoC instead costs 27 mana per use. So about 42 mana per cast, assuming a pathetic 1 hit per skill use. Which is about the same as a 2L Ice Nova (with Cold Pen, 43). Oh, and Controlled Destruction doesn't support Cyclone so it has no effective cost at all.

ITT Voll's Protector users QQ about mana problems. Who could have predicted it?