Cast on Crit is degenerative.

CoC is a big problem.

The defacto "BEST" melee build is in fact a defacto "cast spells with a weapon" build.

GGG should stop nerfing cyclone damage (it's almost fine right now) and significantly nerf its crit chance. And then they should go add a cooldown.

And maybe do something really crazy like prevent non-projectile spells from critting

:^)

"

ihasmario wrote:

CoC is a big problem.

The defacto "BEST" melee build is in fact a defacto "cast spells with a weapon" build.

GGG should stop nerfing cyclone damage (it's almost fine right now) and significantly nerf its crit chance. And then they should go add a cooldown.

And maybe do something really crazy like prevent non-projectile spells from critting

:^)

This, exactly this

"

I_NO wrote:

Seems fine to me unlike incinerate and all them? Where's the complaints? I'll tell you IN THE FUCKING WIND as long as there's no complaints a skill can't be nerfed maybe tweaked but destroyed? Not a chance.

Your wasting your time unless you go make like 2052050 alt accounts and complain about it sure go ahead have a crusade name it The anti-CoC Crusade with my self and me!

You are pathetic. There is new complaint about CoC either on forums or reddit every now and then. But sure... ppl like you will always discard such argument no matter what, saying that author of the complaint is the same person every single time, right? Or similar crap...

I'm pretty sure there are also many players which actually are annoyed by CoC but don't bother to express their feelings on forums or reddit. Every single time I see coc user in the party he is either slacking behind since he would lag out rest of the party while bitching how clear speed suck, or doing his superawesome dps while rest of the party slack behind because they don't want to be killed by missed explosion from bearers or lagged out. Few days ago I had such 3 players in one party at the same time. Can you imagine how absurd it is? Half of the party staying one room behind doing absolutely nothing and then accusing rest of the party that their build is crap because they are not able to run through map like knife through butter? Solution could be... I dunno... if HALF OF THE FKN PARTY WOULDN'T SLACK?!

There are few facts about CoC - good luck arguing against that:

- DPS performance or I should rather say clear speed of regular budget build is uncomparable to results of the same budget invested into CoC build.
- Every new spell has to be balanced around CoC because otherwise it would be abused by it.
- Every new attack has to be considered as tool for generating CoC procs. Just look at BladeVortex.

GGG will never do anything radical about CoC... there are so many players which just copied some version of CoC build and it is only good performer they ever did. Rest of their builds are just crap compared to budget CoC. Can you imagine that scale of shitstorm if GGG would remove coc, or even making it comparable to other build?

"

SybilCut wrote:

I don't have the gumption to get into too much detail right now, but I think that a support gem that has no use in most builds and in its respective builds says "cast supported spell 20 times a second" isn't good for game health.

You are aware of the fact, that with 20 spells per second, you actually would need a better ping then 50ms to make it work, right? ;)

"

Astarte911 wrote:

"

SybilCut wrote:

I don't have the gumption to get into too much detail right now, but I think that a support gem that has no use in most builds and in its respective builds says "cast supported spell 20 times a second" isn't good for game health.

You are aware of the fact, that with 20 spells per second, you actually would need a better ping then 50ms to make it work, right? ;)

Ummm, no you wouldn't? Or you think that ping is hardcap for your cast/attack speed?

"

Diphal wrote:

"

Astarte911 wrote:

"

SybilCut wrote:

I don't have the gumption to get into too much detail right now, but I think that a support gem that has no use in most builds and in its respective builds says "cast supported spell 20 times a second" isn't good for game health.

You are aware of the fact, that with 20 spells per second, you actually would need a better ping then 50ms to make it work, right? ;)

Ummm, no you wouldn't? Or you think that ping is hardcap for your cast/attack speed?

I wouldn't swear 100%, but if your pc only talks all 100ms with the server, it would limit it for some skills, i would assume.

"

Astarte911 wrote:

I wouldn't swear 100%, but if your pc only talks all 100ms with the server, it would limit it for some skills, i would assume.

I don't think communication between client and server is that simple. Tho I don't have technical knowledge to guarantee that, but I'm pretty sure that when i pick up Echoing shrine I'm able to hit more often with Incinerate than my latency would allow.

"

Diphal wrote:

"

Astarte911 wrote:

I wouldn't swear 100%, but if your pc only talks all 100ms with the server, it would limit it for some skills, i would assume.

I don't think communication between client and server is that simple. Tho I don't have technical knowledge to guarantee that, but I'm pretty sure that when i pick up Echoing shrine I'm able to hit more often with Incinerate than my latency would allow.

Echo is something else! You clicking 1 time with your mouse, which does executes 2 casts.

Echo and Multistrike working here in the same way. You doing more attacks per mouse click. But there is a limitation of attack/cast speed via your ping (If they dont have a method to interpolate between two samples, thats why i said, i assume).

You can imagine that pretty easy:

If you have a skill that performs (without multi/echo and no charging skill like inci/lightning tendrils, where echo in general does not work) 20 attacks per second (100ms ping) and you name locking something its physically impossible (only with an estimation maybe) that the server can perform this amount of attacks

you click:

after 10 ms - nothing
after 20 ms - nothing
...
after 100 ms - the server knows now that you have clicked. But here your attack/cast speed is allready limited to 10aps.

I hope you got my point :).

This isn't true at all, and is only true for the initial click.

Ping is an offset to all actions, not an individual offset between actions.

What you're describing is a 20 year old method of doing things as well, which caused problems where your actions would be bound to an individual frame. I surely hope that GGG isn't doing it.

"

Vhlad wrote:

In general wands are actually better than bows for cocs with all things considered, since you can use a shield (so from a balance perspective it wouldn't be that meaningful to make cocs become wand only vs. bow + wand).

I know you said in general, but lioneye's fall crit is a thing.

But still, one of the big problems in game right now (especially softcore) is crit = king

"

ihasmario wrote:

This isn't true at all, and is only true for the initial click.

Ping is an offset to all actions, not an individual offset between actions.

What you're describing is a 20 year old method of doing things as well, which caused problems where your actions would be bound to an individual frame. I surely hope that GGG isn't doing it.

How is it actually done ?

In signal processing, microprocessor based systems and especially motor inverters this is still pretty much state-of-the-art (execution of actions, also shannon sampling theorem).

edit: Of course, i shouldn't totally interpolate between gaming and the stuff we're doing in our lab at uni, maybe its simply wrong. Im here pretty limited to the stuff ive learned regarding sampling etc.