Cast on Crit is degenerative.

"
ScrotieMcB wrote:
I'm not really buying the imbalanced argument.


The imbalanced argument stems from the insane DPS that can be pumped out of it (hello, cyclone discharge), making it a go-to cookie cutter build for many players. Whether or not that is inherently bad is up for debate.

"
ScrotieMcB wrote:
Basically, GGG has designed itself into a corner where it has lost control over the variance of cast time, in much the same way that Surgeon's has caused GGG to lose control over what types of base flasks types it can create (thus the plethora of unique flasks made since).

So overall, I agree game would be better without Cast on Crit around, at least the way it's designed currently. Perhaps some version which took cast speed (or perhaps mana cost) of spells into account, which would make CoC-supported attacks take longer (or have prohibitively high mana costs, which would need to be carefully built around). But as it is now, it enables one very niche build type, while having a very negative influence on casters overall... and although it's nice to have cool builds in the game, shitting on a very common character archetype isn't the way to do it.


I'm glad you catch it. Cast on Crit is quite unhealthy for spell design, because it completely routs GGG's intended play pattern with a given spell in favor of as many casts in a second as physically possible and needs to be carefully considered with new spell's designs. They've removed their ability to properly implement single high impact spells, unless they decide to make them Vaal spells (a mediocre workaround) or to arbitrarily make it not work with cast on crit (an even more cheesy workaround). It's silly, honestly, how they're now forced to walk on eggshells with their spell design. The game would be better off without Cast on Crit certainly.
Really have no idea how CoC keeps escaping the nerf hammer.
"
GeorgAnatoly wrote:
Really have no idea how CoC keeps escaping the nerf hammer.


With zero complaints it will be fine that's how GGG works via reddit and this section if there's no complaints it will hardly be touched end of story.

Dys an sohm
Rohs an kyn
Sahl djahs afah
Mah morn narr
"
"
GeorgAnatoly wrote:
Really have no idea how CoC keeps escaping the nerf hammer.


With zero complaints it will be fine that's how GGG works via reddit and this section if there's no complaints it will hardly be touched end of story.


If you haven't noticed, everyone but you in this thread seems to agree that there's some sort of issue. You are the only dissenting argument, and your argument is that there are no complaints. Can you go be a pissant somewhere else?
"
"
GeorgAnatoly wrote:
Really have no idea how CoC keeps escaping the nerf hammer.


With zero complaints it will be fine that's how GGG works via reddit and this section if there's no complaints it will hardly be touched end of story.



I mean I have 0 idea why people are saying I_NO is one of those "coc" lovers, her builds are clearly on her sig where she actually plays superior builds involving ranged and massive amounts of MF.

Okay for real guys let's take a step back and look at what can CoC actually do that is "broken."

There is ONE build that CoC build is even somewhat better than self-cast, and that's either discharge (Which requires you to have ton of exalts and very high end gear to be "broken) or bladefall which is broken anyway.

Don't go on a crusade on something without looking at it objectively.
Last edited by RagnarokChu on Jan 20, 2016, 3:09:38 PM
they cannot nerf CoCS - it is the go-to build for a group of players that cries the loudest. the one that strives for power and only power and if they cannot get it via skill (that they mostly lack) they will get it via loud shouts

ggg is not really in the position to upset any large group. while crit nerfs upset many groups 'a little' - the CoCS-specific nerf target one uniform group


also - CoCS is probably a mere blip in their 'excel sheets' they balance their game around. you know, a lot more players use Melee Phys support gem than CoCS. the pitfalls of badly designed spreadsheets

this is all sad as the CoCS is probably the one addition that made the poe a lot less 'rich' experience than it could have been. with CoCS so many designs are impossible and forever lost..
"
RagnarokChu wrote:
"
"
GeorgAnatoly wrote:
Really have no idea how CoC keeps escaping the nerf hammer.


With zero complaints it will be fine that's how GGG works via reddit and this section if there's no complaints it will hardly be touched end of story.



I mean I have 0 idea why people are saying I_NO is one of those "coc" lovers, her builds are clearly on her sig where she actually plays superior builds involving ranged and massive amounts of MF.

Okay for real guys let's take a step back and look at what can CoC actually do that is "broken."

There is ONE build that CoC build is even somewhat better than self-cast, and that's either discharge (Which requires you to have ton of exalts and very high end gear to be "broken) or bladefall which is broken anyway.

Don't go on a crusade on something without looking at it objectively.


Why thank you Rag :P
Dys an sohm
Rohs an kyn
Sahl djahs afah
Mah morn narr
"
RagnarokChu wrote:
Okay for real guys let's take a step back and look at what can CoC actually do that is "broken."

There is ONE build that CoC build is even somewhat better than self-cast, and that's either discharge (Which requires you to have ton of exalts and very high end gear to be "broken) or bladefall which is broken anyway.


The issue isn't necessarily the power level. It's powerful, yes; but the core argument is in the fact that it harshly limits GGG's spell design capability, hence "degenerative". Historically you also had Shatter Chuck which was nerfed. And when Bladefall is nerfed, it will likely still be a core component of a lot of Cast on Crit setups.

The issue is that any time GGG creates a new spell, especially one with a setup and high payoff, it can be potentially ignored as a self-cast tool and slotted into a cast on crit build because there are no checks on cast speed that are traditionally important to a caster's damage output (AND emotional satisfaction).
"
SybilCut wrote:
"
"
GeorgAnatoly wrote:
Really have no idea how CoC keeps escaping the nerf hammer.


With zero complaints it will be fine that's how GGG works via reddit and this section if there's no complaints it will hardly be touched end of story.


If you haven't noticed, everyone but you in this thread seems to agree that there's some sort of issue. You are the only dissenting argument, and your argument is that there are no complaints. Can you go be a pissant somewhere else?


One single thread LOL You have a ZERO clue of how they nerf things do you?

1) It has to be multiple threads
2) It has to be reddit constantly and a flow here

Do 1 and 2 exist within both? No they don't unless you think you ''forum warrior'' more then I do which I highly fucking doubt then no CoC can't be nerfed due to 1 and 2 can be in place.

End of of your story be bop BAM 1 TWO fucking three.
Dys an sohm
Rohs an kyn
Sahl djahs afah
Mah morn narr
"
One single thread LOL You have a ZERO clue of how they nerf things do you?


you have really shitty arguments, but thanks for the bumps.

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