Cast on Crit is degenerative.

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

You cannot "spam" meteor 20 times a 2nd because of the internal CD of CoC (you cannot stack xxx attack, coc and 2-3x meteor spell). A meteor type spells already exists, it's called stormcall and it completely sucks ass for CoC.

The internal cooldown of cast on crit is 0.05 seconds, which means precisely 20 times a second.
And your stormcall not being good is a moot point. It's also an incredibly small AoE. X, therefore Y? The two points are unrelated.

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

All AoE spells but discharge and bladefall as of current suck ass with CoC, you do not need to be an magical oracle to figure out that any similar AoE spell do not work well with CoC

So according to you then, as bladefall is of course going to "suck ass" with CoC after it gets nerfed, CoC exists solely to abuse discharge as its only viable spell. Why then, should it be such a prized mechanic?

I'm basically done arguing with you.

"

SybilCut wrote:

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

You cannot "spam" meteor 20 times a 2nd because of the internal CD of CoC (you cannot stack xxx attack, coc and 2-3x meteor spell). A meteor type spells already exists, it's called stormcall and it completely sucks ass for CoC.

The internal cooldown of cast on crit is 0.05 seconds, which means precisely 20 times a second.
And your stormcall not being good is a moot point. It's also an incredibly small AoE. X, therefore Y? The two points are unrelated.

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

All AoE spells but discharge and bladefall as of current suck ass with CoC, you do not need to be an magical oracle to figure out that any similar AoE spell do not work well with CoC

So according to you then, as bladefall is of course going to "suck ass" with CoC after it gets nerfed, CoC exists solely to abuse discharge as its only viable spell. Why then, should it be such a prized mechanic?

I'm basically done arguing with you.

You're funny since you don't even know how CoC mechanics even work LOL.

The internal CD is there to make it impossible to stack the same amount of spells for CoC for the "20x a second.

Before you could do something like spectral throw - gmp - CoC - fireball - fireball - fireball and shoot out massive waves of fireballs.

Now you cannot do that because only one instance of fireball with proc at one time, and with one instance of fireball you literally cannot spam it "20 times a second." Nobody has 100% crit chance hitting enemies at 40+ times a second to be able to cast it 20 times a second.

Only spells that currently are amazing with CoC are discharge because you can generate charges with voll's devo + the chest to keep it going. But at best you discharge 3x a second.

Also how is my stormcall a moot point? Are they going to release an ultra overpowered meteor spell that hits the entire screen and require no investment?

He doesn't even know how it works is the best part haha.

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

Nobody has 100% crit chance hitting enemies at 40+ times a second to be able to cast it 20 times a second.

This is your main point in the post, and you're arguing a hypothetical situation with pedanticisms. I know that no CoC build actually casts that frequently, but up to that given attack's maximum. No attack has the capacity to even HIT 20 times a second. I'm aware that the internal cooldown was implemented to stop spell overlap. Neither you nor I_NO have actually made any points about cast on crit's design in this entire thread, just continuously tried to negate or poke holes in mine. Are you done now?

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SybilCut wrote:

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

Nobody has 100% crit chance hitting enemies at 40+ times a second to be able to cast it 20 times a second.

This is your main point in the post, and you're arguing a hypothetical situation with pedanticisms. I know that no CoC build actually casts that frequently, but up to that given attack's maximum. No attack has the capacity to even HIT 20 times a second. I'm aware that the internal cooldown was implemented to stop spell overlap. Are you done now?

It's the main point of my post because I'm responded to your hyperbole, don't turn this on me LOL. Why would you even bring that up if you know that it was a retarded point to begin with. Don't try to play it off as "oh I knew it all along why are you telling me this."

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RagnarokChu wrote:

It's the main point of my post because I'm responded to your hyperbole, don't turn this on me LOL. Why would you even bring that up if you know that it was a retarded point to begin with. Don't try to play it off as "oh I knew it all along why are you telling me this."

So you ignore the rest of my point to address a single hyperbole that I used to make said point that doesn't actually negate or change it whatsoever. Excellent debate tactic, friend.

"

SybilCut wrote:

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RagnarokChu wrote:

It's the main point of my post because I'm responded to your hyperbole, don't turn this on me LOL. Why would you even bring that up if you know that it was a retarded point to begin with. Don't try to play it off as "oh I knew it all along why are you telling me this."

So you ignore the rest of my point to address a single hyperbole that I used to make said point that doesn't actually negate or change it whatsoever. Excellent debate tactic, friend.

Also I brought up tons of argument that you are willfully not responding too.

1. You cannot use it for any channel spells
2. Self cast is better for projectile spells
3. The ways to actually proc CoC is to barrage with a ton of those threshold jewels or cyclone which don't work for a large portion of possible skill gem designs anyway.
4. CoC requires large investment in gear and skill tree, making few skill gems viable for the ability to be "broken" with CoC. Why should I CoC skulls when I can use +3 staffs?
5. You can spam spells extremely fast anyway with shit like spell echo ~.~

I responded to every single bit if your counter arguments, look very carefully in the posts.

YOU are the one ignoring things I am saying. You can't even think of 1 actual skill gem that would make CoC "broken" instead of balanced outside of telling me some theoretical meteor spell that will nuke the entire screen like bladefall or some shit instead of being similar to stormcall.

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RagnarokChu wrote:

Also I brought up tons of argument that you are willfully not responding too.

1. You cannot use it for any channel spells
So new spells need to be channels?
2. Self cast is better for projectile spells
Shatter chuck?
3. The ways to actually proc CoC is to barrage with a ton of those threshold jewels or cyclone which don't work for a large portion of possible skill gem designs anyway.
does not address the design of cast on crit
4. CoC requires large investment in gear and skill tree, making few skill gems viable for the ability to be "broken" with CoC. Why should I CoC skulls when I can use +3 staffs?
your only valid point, but almost works against you in that a caster build is destroyed thematically by high investment into exclusively non-caster stats like weapon crit and attack speed. high investment does nothing to change the result and ramifications of cast on crit as a design
5. You can spam spells extremely fast anyway with shit like spell echo ~.~
moot point, does not address cast on crit ignoring inherent cast speed

YOU are the one ignoring things I am saying. You can't even think of 1 actual skill gem that would make CoC "broken" instead of balanced outside of telling me some theoretical meteor spell that will nuke the entire screen like bladefall or some shit instead of being similar to stormcall.

You continually bring up existing spells saying "but its not broken with THIS" as though that makes a lick of difference. And it's not that that "theoretical meteor spell" is the only one that would matter; it's that cast on crit utterly removes GGG's ability to include more spells LIKE discharge in their impact and use for a caster. You also keep bringing up stupid shit and trying to get a last word in as though you've won, even though you seem to have no idea how to actually debate a design.

"

SybilCut wrote:

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

Also I brought up tons of argument that you are willfully not responding too.

1. You cannot use it for any channel spells
So new spells need to be channels?
2. Self cast is better for projectile spells
Shatter chuck?
3. The ways to actually proc CoC is to barrage with a ton of those threshold jewels or cyclone which don't work for a large portion of possible skill gem designs anyway.
does not address the design of cast on crit
4. CoC requires large investment in gear and skill tree, making few skill gems viable for the ability to be "broken" with CoC. Why should I CoC skulls when I can use +3 staffs?
your only valid point, but almost works against you in that a caster build is destroyed thematically by high investment into exclusively non-caster stats like weapon crit and attack speed.
5. You can spam spells extremely fast anyway with shit like spell echo ~.~
moot point, does not address cast on crit ignoring inherent cast speed

YOU are the one ignoring things I am saying. You can't even think of 1 actual skill gem that would make CoC "broken" instead of balanced outside of telling me some theoretical meteor spell that will nuke the entire screen like bladefall or some shit instead of being similar to stormcall.

You continually bring up existing spells saying "but its not broken with THIS" as though that makes a lick of difference. And it's not that that "theoretical meteor spell" is the only one that would matter; it's that cast on crit utterly removes GGG's ability to include more spells LIKE discharge in their impact and use for a caster. You also keep bringing up stupid shit and trying to get a last word in as though you've won, even though you seem to have no idea how to actually debate a design.

You know spells don't magically come out of thin air and we are suddenly bedazzled by them. If all current BALANCED projectile spells aren't broken with CoC, unless they release a BROKEN projectile spell then it obv wouldn't be broken with CoC.

Example: They release a projectile that splits into smaller projectiles on hit, they release lighting/ice version of fireball, they release something that flys outwards and comes back to you ect, they release a dot version of a fireball (Well we have that now) ect.

All of them will be balanced with CoC unless it is something like bladefall that is broken when you self cast it anyway.

Okay MORE spells like discharge, okay we have blade vortex? Is blade vortex broken with CoC? How many other flavors of discharge are going for here. Why would we design MORE discharges when we have discharge in the game already. We have righteous fire which is like discharge but without attacking but something different.

Debates should involve actual realism and logic with the pre-existing world, not theoretical shit that doesn't apply because there is preexisting evidence and rules ahead of time.

Also:

1. "So new spells need to be channeled"
CoC isn't breaking any spells anyway, don't give me that bs lol.
2. Shatterchuck is ass and nobody plays it anymore
3. Okay thanks that means it already self-limits itself for most future skill gems.
4. Okay thanks it means it already self-limits itself further more with future skill gems.
5. It has have to do with CoC cast speed because you can cast somewhat close to the speed of CoC, and CoC already has a pure actual proven limit with the only 2 methods to proc it (cyclone and barrage)

Eh. It seems some of you can only see what is, not what could have been. If I have to explain why CoC's design is bad, or Surgeon's, or why abandoning loot tension for loot filters was bad... well, I don't have any evidence in the present, except to point out the things which never happened. Instead I must rely on a foresight and imagination which apparently aren't present either.