D4 no gud, send me poe2 thx
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I think you must have missed what he was saying.
[Removed by Support] Last edited by Will_GGG on Mar 23, 2023, 9:20:04 AM
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" In games like FPS games, or competitive games, simply upgrading the graphics basically is a 2. The perception and playerbase of these games dont want change. They also dont need change. Half the time, they fight back even against graphical upgrades. People who play Quake still play old quake, people thought 1.6 was better than Source, etc. They dont actually need new content. The games are inherently changing because of PvP anyways. Thats why just doing a graphical update on the game and slapping a 2 on it is far more palatable even if its basically the same thing. They dont need or want more content. Any small change is actually a large change to those games, and more deserving of a 2. A game like an Arpg is different. Its PvE based. It requires new content. It requires new graphics and new things. The playerbases are also different, and expect or want more things. So haphazardly throwing a "2" on a content drop thats basically an expansion, is far more of a marketing ploy/slap in the face compared to a competitive FPS game(or other competitive games). We NEED and want updates. To graphics, to more content, to new systems, and these games generally give you these fairly regularly, so an actual "2" has to be much more than your typical DLC or expansion, and if it isnt, we call BS. Thats very different from the competitive games like Counterstrike where people really dont want the game to change at all. They dont want new systems, and half the time they dont want new graphic engines, either. And in reality the games dont need them. IF anything the graphical update is just to keep the game fresh to pull in new players. So even the smallest change to the game comes off as a 2. Or at least as someone who played tons of competitive games over the years this is my opinion on why a 2 slapped on a graphic engine update, or a small update to a FPS/MOBA/etc can be considered a 2 and I'll accept it, compared to a DLC pack for an Arpg being called a 2 and I dont. I dont want or need new content in the competitive game; fighting other players are my ever-changing content. Meanwhile I NEED and want more content in a PvE-centered grind game like an Arpg. A small change has much more of an impact in a competitive game, and seems larger by default. Last edited by Destructodave on Mar 23, 2023, 10:02:23 AM
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" What? There is no "engine overhaul", there are new animations for skills currently not in the game, and for new weapons types. There are environmental tweaks and some collision tech, but don't get confused, it's still their orginal in-house, engine they made on the cheap. Upgrades sure. Competitive engine in today's professional engine marketplace? Not a chance. The story isn't new either. It's an alternate sub-story campaign running parallel to PoE1, within the same game, and sharing endgame together. It's still exiles in Wraeclast doing their thing for a bit, then blasting maps. Mechanically, as far as I know, the only fundamental changes are around gear and gem socketing. Will this will be admittedly a large shift game experience wise? Yes. But mechanically all they are doing is moving links to the gems themselves to alleviate gear progression stress. That's all thats been made public, unless there is something else that "changes how the game functions", That I've missed. The AI getting better constitutes a sequel? Lol. Anyways the PoE2 marketing is honestly deceptive given its current scope. Its simply to drive interest and revenue. I think any players returning to try POE2 will be confused it's not really PoE2, but a PoE1 expansion. In that sense there could be some backlash and difficulty communicating to manage expectations. Whenever they start media blitzing (and posting a FAQ section here) I think they have to be more clear that PoE2 isn't a standalone sequel. It's got new elements to be sure, but it really is patch 4.0 on the existing framework. If they dont, it's shady as fuck in my eyes, just for the money, and any flak they get is more than justified. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln Last edited by DarthSki44 on Mar 23, 2023, 10:05:18 AM
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" I dont think they will ever make a 2, honestly. This is the problem with live-service games. They have too many MTX/supporter packs/various achieves and things that people earned that they are afraid to make a whole new game. You see this in mobile games, you see it in all live service games that are decently popular. There is no WoW 2. There is no Warframe 2. There is Destiny 2, but probably wont be a destiny 3 for a long time. These things easily start to become a detriment to the game, too. Using D3 as an example, the RMAH basically made Blizzard forgo seasons, to the detriment of the game. They didnt want to ruffle the feathers of people spending money by making their items obsolete, so they attempted to just run the game without seasons and it was bad. I'm even susceptible to this kind of stuff. I own a Demigod's Presence from Closed Beta that if PoE 2 actually existed, it would be meaningless, as would my time then. So while PoE still exists, I can plaster it on the forum from time to time. But until PoE2 will probably always have ties to PoE 1 for these reasons. Too many MTX, too much invested value, and they are afraid they will run off their playerbase if they invalidate all of it. So we are always going to be stuck with these fake "2" sequels that arent sequels at all. |
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" It's so fun when people are trying this "argument thing" they've heard of, but not really understanding what it is. Do me a favor; define "overhaul" for me, and then explain to me how YOU know that they aren't overhauling their own engine for PoE 2? Preferably with links and/or quotes. " Of course the story is new? It's just as "new" as Diablo sequels, "running around in Sanctuary for a bit, with the same bosses". They've also changed the story and mechanics of mapping several times before - and will probably do it in PoE 2. So of course the story is new. As I've said before: Calling it a completely new game is just as cringe as downplaying the changes in an almost hyperbolic way using a grey area between fantasy and lies. Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you.
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" Jesus christ. I'm not falling for this type of antagonistic shit today. If you think it's a new story and a new engine (or overhaul, or whatever the fuck) fine. We disagree. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln Last edited by DarthSki44 on Mar 23, 2023, 10:49:31 AM
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Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you.
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Not much of a Diablo fan myself despite POE origins, more likely due to POE then Diablo itself although endless paragon lvls and RMAH cemented it for me.
That being said I do look forward to new (A)RPGs, MMOs and games in general being released as not only does it expand my gaming options but possibly push industry advancement in areas. Of course there is always the prospect of disappointment for players and companies but what I find more interesting is how both choose to continue forward. D4 has been called anything/everything from pure trash and a slap in the face to innovative and the best game of our time xD. Personally I think its very generic so far with some Diablo paint. Sounds bad when put like that but its not, not for Blizzard at least and tbf tbe for the most part. They have taken Diablo and transformed it into something else. It runs the risk of fracturing their player base further but its big enough to be fractured and can/will reach new audiences once D4 releases. Some people have waited 10-20+ years for this so disappointment or excitement etc is understandable. Plenty circulating about D4 end game atm but nothing official. Until then its a wait and see for me. I will say having as much resources available as they do and being a live service game with seasons would usually be very promising but we all saw what happened to D3, DI and now this iteration of D4 lies in the balance. Promises/intentions have been made, if they actually follow up on them will remain to be seen. POE2 or w/e people choose to call it is not here yet so...??? I guess its still comforting to see some people can form their own opinions without/despite being so heavily influenced. |
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" First nice out-of context snip, and for what it's worth some people are saying its totally new on this forum (to my great annoyance) You are being ridiculous asking for quotes and definitions on the specifics of internal goalposts for engine work, and what constitutes overhaul. Why? One because GGG never said "overhaul" or anything beyond "continual engine upgrades", and two, because I would absolutely turn it around and ask what does "overhaul" mean to you expectations wise? Is adding some fog to an area an engine overhaul? Is adding physics to have arrows bounce off walls an overhaul? If so fine. I won't win this debate in that context because it's objectively absurd. Any little change is then considered an overhaul behind the guise of vagueness? I'm not going to do that, and why I quoted that portion of the other poster to respond to. If you ask me, overhaul constitutes global engine changes, and for what we know, that isn't happening here. (And we dont even know if it then applies to anything in PoE1) But "Do me a favor" and feel free to provide quotes, videos, and links showing the scope of the engine "overhaul" that's coming if you agree with that. If not then you just want to argue semantics with me. I don't want to do that either tbh, so if that's what you want let's end it there. And in general if D4 in 12 months adds Monk and Paladin, makes some UI changes, adds a new region to the world with some narrative quests and calls it Diablo 5, then yeah I'd have the same issue. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
- Abraham Lincoln |
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" I really don't think I am. This wasn't some subjective perception or interpretation, this was you directly saying "there is no engine overhaul" as it's some kind of fact. You even say it yourself: We don't know, but you are allowed to say what is and what isn't happening? Come on. And then you're suddenly using "new engine"; has anyone claimed that, or did you just use it for dramatic effect? BTW, GGG used the words "massive improvements". I CAN link you to that, if you want. I think I would call the sum of all known changes as an "overhaul", yes. Would I call it a "new engine"? Of course not. I did an overhaul on my outboard motor last summer, but did I make "massive improvements" to it? No. Would I call it a new motor? Hardly, it only runs a little better. But between the new physics regarding items, environment and characters, with new animations and models, new grass tech, new AI, all the small tweaks they're not talking about and just continuous work on the engine the last 4-5 years? Yes, I would probably call it an overhaul. I don't even think additions or changes are being named in any know definition of overhaul, but that may be beside the point. Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you. Last edited by Phrazz on Mar 23, 2023, 12:27:53 PM
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