D4 no gud, send me poe2 thx

"

Raycheetah wrote:

I define "chapter" as the next sequential installment in a story. PoE 2 shows us exactly that, so far as the story goes. Events are set some twenty years after the defeat of Kitava, with a new batch of characters (however different they might be from their original incarnations) dealing with a new threat in a new environment, with some references to previous events and situations.

You? =0[.]o=

I hope you do not think I was serious here. Was just playing along with your semantics whine. Call it self criticism, if you'd like.

But lets play along. By your definition, every sequel set in the same world as the previous installment, is a "new chapter". Skyrim being the chapter after Oblivion, Diablo 4 being the chapter after Diablo 3 and so on. Sure, there may be different characters and some years in between, but still. Or do we escape the "chapter" definition if we go back in time?

Any-freaking-how, I think everyone and their grandmother agree that PoE 2/PoE 4.0 isn't a new game. I just find it weird that some people have the need to downplay the changes into trifles.

"

Phrazz wrote:

"

Raycheetah wrote:

I define "chapter" as the next sequential installment in a story. PoE 2 shows us exactly that, so far as the story goes. Events are set some twenty years after the defeat of Kitava, with a new batch of characters (however different they might be from their original incarnations) dealing with a new threat in a new environment, with some references to previous events and situations.

You? =0[.]o=

I hope you do not think I was serious here. Was just playing along with your semantics whine. Call it self criticism, if you'd like.

But lets play along. By your definition, every sequel set in the same world as the previous installment, is a "new chapter". Skyrim being the chapter after Oblivion, Diablo 4 being the chapter after Diablo 3 and so on. Sure, there may be different characters and some years in between, but still. Or do we escape the "chapter" definition if we go back in time?

Any-freaking-how, I think everyone and their grandmother agree that PoE 2/PoE 4.0 isn't a new game. I just find it weird that some people have the need to downplay the changes into trifles.

Re-read my post. I said "Next sequential installment."

And who says anyone has to agree with anything? Different people perceive things differently. For my part, I don't care if PoE 2 is a "different game" or not. I only care that it is still enjoyable to play.

I just find it weird that some people have the need to split hairs over a non-issue. =9[.]9=

Whether or not PoE 2 is a different game or not, if the majority of the update is just more campaign, I'm not gonna be very happy.

I mean trying to slog through the 10 act campaign nowadays is what burns me out before I even get to the slog of grinding out my atlas and maps and last league I played I simply couldnt do it again. And yes, I know you can speed run it, but it still sucks. I never play alts anymore because of how annoying it is to play through the campaign, if I can even make it through the first time.

And if PoE 2 is primarily a few bells and whistles and majority new campaign, its not gonna appeal to me all that much.

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Destructodave wrote:

Whether or not PoE 2 is a different game or not, if the majority of the update is just more campaign, I'm not gonna be very happy.

I mean trying to slog through the 10 act campaign nowadays is what burns me out before I even get to the slog of grinding out my atlas and maps and last league I played I simply couldnt do it again. And yes, I know you can speed run it, but it still sucks. I never play alts anymore because of how annoying it is to play through the campaign, if I can even make it through the first time.

And if PoE 2 is primarily a few bells and whistles and majority new campaign, its not gonna appeal to me all that much.

Exactly. It's actually one of my theories on why PoE2 has taken so long. There was supposed to be a beta by the end of 2020, and yet here we are hoping for news mid 2023. So I'm thinking GGG might be cooking up something else. I'm thinking, they want to go open world (ish).

For instance, one of the biggest problems, in my opinion, is a problem that's plagued nearly every ARPG *except* for D2, and D4 (which we learned wouldn't be a problem in 2019); the game world. So many arpgs, including PoE, have this entire game world that you don't actually play in the vast majority of the time. You rush the campaign then sit in your HO and do little instanced maps. D2 didn't have this problem, you actually got to play in the game world on hell difficulty, that was the endgame. And with D2R they've only made it even better, granting a ton of areas rotating max mob level buffs (simply explained I know). D3 did nearly the same thing as PoE. sit in town and just run rifts.

And now we've got D4, and we learned back at announcement they too want to go open world. And the idea of running around and playing the game, at max level, anywhere you choose for your endgame is quite awesome. I for one am stoked. Of course there's those ~120+ nightmare dungeons that you'll want to run, but there's actual REASON to be out in the open world, and something about that is so appealing. I never could stand the mechanic like PoE or D3 and only ever playing in these little cut off chunks of the full game I just spent all my time going through.


Anyway the reason I responded is to agree with Dave here, that *if* PoE2 is just a shiny new campaign to blast through as fast as possible, it's going to be an L in my book. Even if it comes with new ascendancies, the gem re work ect, if it's still something everyone's going to actively try to skip after their first time through, GGG will have a problem. That's why I suggested the theory that we might see something much bigger then we thought at exilecon; a PoE open world.

Eh who am I kidding probably not lol

My gut says that the gem change is faaaaaar easier to show off in an isolated demo than it is to implement in a game that has struggled to stay balanced as is.

D4 was actually amazing, you are delusional. The success of D4 will rely on it's end game.

PoE as it may be a good game, it has major issues for survival which cannot be ignored.

It is not a good game for new players, if new players are not coming to the game, it is on a slow path of death. So we will see what kind of changes will come to the talent tree and gearing aspect as it is too complex for most people.

I have attempted to bring over several people to PoE, but most are not willing to sift through an excel spreadsheet and PoB + forums + videos just to learn how to start playing.

Oh PoE has been my dirty secret pretty much the whole time. None of my real friends like it. Most saw its model and complicated systems and were like nope. Only one knows I was a big supporter and thats only because he played for a while -- and was cautiously enjoying DIV last weekend which went a long way towards my own opinion-forming.

But to this day the only people I really talk PoE with are former Exiles because only they even vaguely care. Most of *them* are totally uninterested in DIV as well which makes me wonder if the combination of Blizzard's trash tier reputation, GGG's selling out, Wolcen's spectacular faceplant and Last Epoch's too obvious design as a panacea to PoE completely put them off new ARPGs permanently. Have to admit, it was close with me. I have been taking solace in Titan Quest, Grim Dawn and Sacred 2 for months. At least two of those are classics of the genre and the third is well more of the same but not offensively so.

But yeah, I am pretty oldschool with how involved I was with PoE online compared to how little it figured into my offline existence. I could be proud of it here but IRL it was...kind of lame really. Enjoy something for free or cheap? Cool. Actually make money from it? NICE! Sort of enjoy it and spend lots of money on it? That just sounds like the later stages of a hardcore drug habit. I deserved every pitying look I got when I even hinted at supporting a Diablo clone that, at first glance, kind of looked like a fan effort. A very good one, but still Diablo enough not to seem like something else.

And that hasn't changed. Not even now. Not a bad thing, given how much actual Diablo has changed, but it is a fairly specialised thing. One with which non-Exiles cannot connect even at a superficial level. As I said once long ago: there is no non-hardcore PoE player. If you play it enough to identify as an Exile, you are by default already hardcore about the game. This is why when some unselfaware wolf says in all honesty they're a casual PoE player, only 4-5 hours a day, non-Exiles laugh and shake their heads at both the seeming contradiction and the reality that with PoE it's also probably true.

And that's just online. Try saying that in real life and see what happens.

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Bleu42 wrote:

Exactly. It's actually one of my theories on why PoE2 has taken so long. There was supposed to be a beta by the end of 2020, and yet here we are hoping for news mid 2023. So I'm thinking GGG might be cooking up something else. I'm thinking, they want to go open world (ish).

Anyway the reason I responded is to agree with Dave here, that *if* PoE2 is just a shiny new campaign to blast through as fast as possible, it's going to be an L in my book. Even if it comes with new ascendancies, the gem re work ect, if it's still something everyone's going to actively try to skip after their first time through, GGG will have a problem. That's why I suggested the theory that we might see something much bigger then we thought at exilecon; a PoE open world.

Eh who am I kidding probably not lol

Its funny people bash D4 for MMO-qualities, when PoE flirted with them(and used some) way before D3-D4 ever did, with shared towns, player housing(hideouts), letting people into your instances(various events early on).

I wouldnt be surprised if an open world-esque thing wasnt on their plate at one point, or still there. Whether that showed up in POE2 is another thing, but they used far more MMO-like elements since the game's inception so I dont know why all of a sudden PoE players hate MMO things. PoE was far closer to a typical MMO-lite than D3 ever was.

But I'm really worried its just going to be a handful of little things, and then the majority of POE 2 is just another campaign for me to slog through.

poe2 be the same game again that people played for a decade+
a crafting simulator and not an arpg anymore.

Diablo4 adds a design that poe2 should have had but GGG devs went with the same old.

Anyhow, soon to open beta diablo4 playtime starts

"

Destructodave wrote:

But until PoE2 will probably always have ties to PoE 1 for these reasons. Too many MTX, too much invested value, and they are afraid they will run off their playerbase if they invalidate all of it. So we are always going to be stuck with these fake "2" sequels that arent sequels at all.

There will be new gameplay features and a new campaign. That is more changes than Resident Evil 7, 8 and 9 so to speak.

And some are dead set to only call it a new game if it has a new engine, but that is not the definition of a sequel.

A sequel is a work of literature, film, theatre, television, music or video game that continues the story of, or expands upon, some earlier work. In the common context of a narrative work of fiction, a sequel portrays events set in the same fictional universe as an earlier work, usually chronologically following the events of that work.

So POE 2 is a sequel.