I really hate lab

See ? It's getting about splitting hairs now.
PoE naturally attracts people that are looking for at least a somewhat hardcore experience.
Such depths kinda goes with a hardcore experience since the amount of knowledge and room for mistake is really big.

So I would say that people that do not want anything like a hardcore experience are likely not playing PoE to start with.

This is why "hardcore" here is a purely subjective term that everybody can manipulate however they want.

PoE is already providing somewhat of a hardcore experience.
Lab enchances that feeling.
I don't see a problem here.

"hardcore" does not necessarily refer to the technical league type.

"

Fruz wrote:

See ? It's getting about splitting hairs now.
PoE naturally attracts people that are looking for at least a somewhat hardcore experience.
Such depths kinda goes with a hardcore experience since the amount of knowledge and room for mistake is really big.

So I would say that people that do not want anything like a hardcore experience are likely not playing PoE to start with.

This is why "hardcore" here is a purely subjective term that everybody can manipulate however they want.

PoE is already providing somewhat of a hardcore experience.
Lab enchances that feeling.
I don't see a problem here.

"hardcore" does not necessarily refer to the technical league type.

PoE has a lack of "hardcore" feeling as balance between playstyle archetypes (life vs ES, melee vs ranged/cast etc.) is so screwed, and you have approved cheats - utilising instant log out when in difficult spots, zerging/carries for bosses, having a better danger/reward ratio on medium difficulty content instead of the true end game one and resorting to overtuned mechanics like Volatiles or Bameth's DD to kill players because monsters can't get dangerous enough.

Let's not even talk about trading, and how a few good items used with common sense, not min-maxing necessarily, trivialise the game.

There is only one "hardcore" aspect of PoE: the grind. Having RNG upon RNG layers give the game false depth, when you "craft" by rolling a dice, you have a system that could be further improved upon.

And Labyrinth didn't bring anything new regarding the "hardcore" feeling, never mind enhancing it, as having one try to complete multiple areas without checkpoints, in an ONLINE ONLY game that isn't the PARAMOUNT OF NETWORK STABILITY, remains an asinine move.

GGG has to address first those sore spots before anyone starts touting "hardcore experience" and PoE in the same instance...

since lab is there i play less

to stuck in a game because of such a mechanic to get the "masterpoints"

anyway summer is there

and hopefully they change the lab for casuals and pros

noobway=no keys Proway=all keys but insane difficulty

3.0 and everything gets alright then !

"

Fruz wrote:

See ? It's getting about splitting hairs now.
PoE naturally attracts people that are looking for at least a somewhat hardcore experience.
Such depths kinda goes with a hardcore experience since the amount of knowledge and room for mistake is really big.

So I would say that people that do not want anything like a hardcore experience are likely not playing PoE to start with.

This is why "hardcore" here is a purely subjective term that everybody can manipulate however they want.

PoE is already providing somewhat of a hardcore experience.
Lab enchances that feeling.
I don't see a problem here.

"hardcore" does not necessarily refer to the technical league type.

a Lot of people have technical problems with the Lab, there are a lot of people that find the lab boring and tedious,a lot of people just don't like the lab, and there are even some who think the lab is too difficult. Together, this make for a significant group of people that want to see the lab gone or at very least changed. You trolling every thread with your "but it works for me" arguments is just childish, stupid and short sighted.

"

ewolow wrote:

From my perspective as an old d2/LOD player, a game that this one is very unapologetically based on, using a map hack to display the map giving another player an unfair advantage and boost in speed was an offense you got banned for.

From my perspective as an old d2/LOD player, i dont remember anyone from top 200 ladder, who played without maphack (and chickedmod obviously)

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

[...]

I saw only salt and bad faith in this message, sorry.
( and a double negation too )

Let's wait that GGG fixes all the internet problems of the world before trying to do any kind of content that might be difficult to players, great idea.

"

Marinxar wrote:

[... irrelevant uninteresting stuff ...]You trolling every thread with your "but it works for me" arguments is just childish, stupid and short sighted.

So you can't be bothered to check what's wrong on your end and/or get geed, and I am making "childish, stupid and short sighted" arguments ?
lulz.

Have fun with that, in the meanwhile I will be enjoying playing PoE with my 100+ms connection, that is not completely stable but allows me to play the game all the same and have fun doing it, lab included.

"

Fruz wrote:

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

[...]

I saw only salt and bad faith in this message, sorry.
( and a double negation too )

Let's wait that GGG fixes all the internet problems of the world before trying to do any kind of content that might be difficult to players, great idea.

"

Marinxar wrote:

[... irrelevant uninteresting stuff ...]You trolling every thread with your "but it works for me" arguments is just childish, stupid and short sighted.

So you can't be bothered to check what's wrong on your end and/or get geed, and I am making "childish, stupid and short sighted" arguments ?
lulz.

Have fun with that, in the meanwhile I will be enjoying playing PoE with my 100+ms connection, that is not completely stable but allows me to play the game all the same and have fun doing it, lab included.

Thanks for the double negation highlight, fixed it.

It's no salt and no bad faith. If it ever was, I wouldn't still be he enjoying the game. But saying that PoE is "hardcore" except regarding the grind is false.

Oh, and I play Dota 2 also, which has it's fair of connection problems at times, but imagine if that game would have the same connection reliability problems (and that is an online PvP environment, so any connection problems hurt a lot more)...

Those that tout "hardcore game" about PoE have to adjust their point of view, especially since GGG invited a larger audience that revolve around more casual players...

So others have to adjust their point of view because yours is right ?
That is pretty narrow minded.

Throw a brand new players to Wraeclast, and see how he gets crushed by the content over and over ( even though it has been simplified quiiiiiiite a bit ).
The learning curve is very steap, and without a big chunk of that knowledge, you cannot build a char properly, and the content will remind it to you very often, you also cannot react properly to what the content is throwing at you, etc ....

Or maybe you forgot about that ? And you are forgetting that many things have been added on top of what was there 4 years ago ?

And when you start having this knowledge, there are still parts of the game that are really far, aka red maps, guardians, Atziri and uber ( to beat ).


Whatever you may think, this does fit (at least) a kind of "hardcoreness", because you need to invest yourself if you want to understand it and not get wrecked, if you want to see what's there, build something, etc ....


Sure you could be a damn sheep follow a guide, but even doing that, without any game knowledge or being a very experienced video game player, you will get destroyed to start with.

PS : Funny how the game isn't *apparently* hardcore and we see quite many thread QQing about the fact that there is a death penalty before lvl 80 ( or 90 ), is it ?

"

Fruz wrote:

So others have to adjust their point of view because yours is right ?
That is pretty narrow minded.

Throw a brand new players to Wraeclast, and see how he gets crushed by the content over and over ( even though it has been simplified quiiiiiiite a bit ).
The learning curve is very steap, and without a big chunk of that knowledge, you cannot build a char properly, and the content will remind it to you very often, you also cannot react properly to what the content is throwing at you, etc ....

Or maybe you forgot about that ? And you are forgetting that many things have been added on top of what was there 4 years ago ?

And when you start having this knowledge, there are still parts of the game that are really far, aka red maps, guardians, Atziri and uber ( to beat ).


Whatever you may think, this does fit (at least) a kind of "hardcoreness", because you need to invest yourself if you want to understand it and not get wrecked, if you want to see what's there, build something, etc ....


Sure you could be a damn sheep follow a guide, but even doing that, without any game knowledge or being a very experienced video game player, you will get destroyed to start with.

PS : Funny how the game isn't *apparently* hardcore and we see quite many thread QQing about the fact that there is a death penalty before lvl 80 ( or 90 ), is it ?

Not saying that others have to adjust their view, that is up to them, but I'm just stating the facts. PoE lacks "hardcore" feeling. Others should stop touting "hardcore" and PoE until those real problems that prevent having "hardcore" and PoE in the same sentence are addressed.

Oh, and if you played ARPG's before, PoE shouldn't feel overwhelming. It has many interesting mechanics, but should not be more than you could or have handled before.

Having everything obscure doesn't add to PoE's "hardcoreness", just adds several obstacles that have to be overcome by gaining information either by playing and paying attention, either by learning it from external sources as the game severely lacks ways of giving pertinent information - how many knew that Doedre had a mechanic regarding curses or the armour efficiency formula without explicitly searching for those? - and most of the times when you die, you have 0 ways of finding out how to improve yourself, except by slowly analysing the replay of a stream.

Although many things were added since the game was released in an alpha state, you can build a character that experiences the content up to tier 15 maps at least, without too much difficulty, by just adapting. You have to pay attention if you're lacking the knowledge from the start, but believe me, just by hoarding stuff and having a common sense when adding skill points, you'll get there. It will be no "easy game" mode, if you're not playing VP + ES, but you could do that.

And yes, even a n00b that sees resistances lower by changing difficulty or by being cursed should get the point that those are values to stack higher than the normal 75%...

Regarding those end game fights, you could get to them, and if you're skillful enough, you could manage them as they're mainly mechanical fights as EZ CI runs illustrated.

The difficulty curve is severely lacking as without paying attention to defensive mechanics and just by overleveling and overgearing, you just breeze through the story acts like they're not even there. Everyone wants to feel like a god in this game but forgets that to get to that level, you need to get invested - and that is actually true for any game - you either need to be/became skillful enough, or have better stuff than requested to complete a certain aspect.

The game isn't "hardcore", and the death penalty should get better tuned as to be relevant from the start - having no death penalty in the part of the game that everyone experiences is not helping - and no one would QQ if the progression from 1-100 would stay the same.

To have the last 10 levels ARTIFICIALLY separated, instead of requesting end game content to be played to advance is a bad decision. There is a reason why people are daisy chaining Shaped Dunes/Strands or Gorges to advance their level as the danger/EXP reward ratio lacks, and trading nullifies the incentive to experience the said end game content (except for Uber "Labyrinth" for the last 2 Ascendency points or having Atlas completion maxed).

"Hardcore" much, right? Neah. Not in this state. Unfortunately.

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

Not saying that others have to adjust their view, that is up to them, but I'm just stating the facts.

Yes you are, and no you are not.

This is literally what you said :

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

Those that tout "hardcore game" about PoE have to adjust their point of view

You see ? You said that, that's what a fact is.

I used to play Diablo1 a bit, PoE has sooo much more depth it's not even open for discussion at this point.
PoE just takes much more time to learn and understand, and it requires a much bigger amount of knowledge to reach the final "levels".

And yes, the fact that you have to look for everything yourself ( in game or not ) increase the difficulty, a lot compared to having everything handled on a silver plate.
You like it or not, that's a part of it and a part of what can be considered "hardcore", you need to invest much more time / resources to reach your ends.

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

Although many things were added since the game was released in an alpha state, you can build a character that experiences the content up to tier 15 maps at least without too much difficulty, by just adapting. You have to pay attention if you're lacking the knowledge from the start, but believe me, just by hoarding stuff and having a common sense when adding skill points, you'll get there. It will be no easy game mode, if you're not playing VP + ES, but you could do that.

You are not even trying to get a beginner's point of view at all, it's so obvious and you are so biased by the fact that you know the game already.
You can try harder.

Having a death penalty from the start ? You mean a death penalty when getting a level takes 5 minutes ? Oo
Like what exactly ?
And no, people are QQing about the death penalty because their characters are not built properly enough to survive the content, or they are playing too recklessly, not because there is no deaht penalty at level 10.


I will just ignore the rest of your post @"You can get to the end game fights", since you have reached level 97 ... but not beaten the Eater of soul, like ever.
You have not done it yourself with hundreds of hours ( if not thousands ) invested into the game, but you think you can just say "it's not hardcore, you can do everything in there, it's not even difficult !"
"without too much difficulty"
"by just adapting"
"you'll get there"
/rofl