I really hate lab

The hardcore-ness of PoE is an outdated propaganda. Taking into account the game evolution, PoE stopped being hardcore since the end of 2013.

While the initial intentions and efforts for a HC environment are true, and also backed up by official statements as approval, game "casualized" on the go, and there isn't even a single announcement to confirm the HC game direction, for years.

Speaking in general, nowadays PoE is casual as fuck, and that's intentional, the more successful marketing strategy. It's just much more complicated than other games in the genre, but the HC tag isn't there.

About the lab - it could be considered HC, being a variation of a rogue dungeon. Once fucking again: the major problem with the lab is its implementation, but not its nature. The arcade elements prevailing is another issue.

"

Turtledove wrote:

"

mezmery wrote:

"

ewolow wrote:

Lab can take 45 minutes to an hour, and that's if you don't die, look for chests/keys and Argus.

uberlab run takes between 4.5 min and 15 min(2 silver chest, intricate+curious)
git gud

Insertion with a bit of reality, the median on the endgame labyrinth ladder right now is 17 minutes 33 seconds.

you are so ignorant, that you dont even get concept of "layout"

A quick little review of the conversation.

ewolow makes the following very reasonable assertion (Proven by looking at labyrinth ladders.)

"

ewolow wrote:

Lab can take 45 minutes to an hour, and that's if you don't die, look for chests/keys and Argus.

Mexmery counters with a really irrelevant assertion about fastest times on the labyrinth ladders. It is irrelevant because Ewolow is talking about single runs for ascendancy points and the fastest labyrinth ladder times are the fastest times for people doing multiple runs for farming labyrinth rather than single runs for ascendancy points.

"

mezmery wrote:

uberlab run takes between 4.5 min and 15 min(2 silver chest, intricate+curious)
git gud

I try to politely point out what the current endgame labyrinth ladder times actually are at and he also point out that even within Mexmery's context he was still exaggerating the expected times.

"

Turtledove wrote:

Insertion with a bit of reality, the median on the endgame labyrinth ladder right now is 17 minutes 33 seconds.

Then this launches Mezmery into a personal attack and brings up an irrelevant tangent about layouts.

"

mezmery wrote:

you are so ignorant, that you dont even get concept of "layout"

If we're going to change the subject to layouts then my position is that having to go to something outside PoE to reference what the current layout is before doing a labyrinth run then there is something wrong with the labyrinth, at least labyrinth runs associated with ascendancy points rather than farming.

"

Turtledove wrote:

If we're going to change the subject to layouts then my position is that having to go to something outside PoE to reference what the current layout is before doing a labyrinth run then there is something wrong with the labyrinth, at least labyrinth runs associated with ascendancy points rather than farming.

you go somewhere outside poe to find trading deals, so going outside poe for any other game reason is ok.

lab is one of the most profitable farm ingame vs time spent, second after breachlord gamble.

"

Turtledove wrote:

Then this launches Mezmery into a personal attack and brings up an irrelevant tangent about layouts.

"

mezmery wrote:

you are so ignorant, that you dont even get concept of "layout"

If we're going to change the subject to layouts then my position is that having to go to something outside PoE to reference what the current layout is before doing a labyrinth run then there is something wrong with the labyrinth, at least labyrinth runs associated with ascendancy points rather than farming.

What a stupid fucking claim. Do you reference shit outside the game to learn more about skill gem interaction or to look up this or that on the wiki?

If you don't then you play like shit or you don't play at all (this is the more likely case)


google is like anyones best friend, the fact that the community has people that share the information about the lab is a positive, not a negative for the game or design of said content. The same has been done for previous league mechanics, like tempest, warbands, ect.

"

mezmery wrote:

"

Turtledove wrote:

If we're going to change the subject to layouts then my position is that having to go to something outside PoE to reference what the current layout is before doing a labyrinth run then there is something wrong with the labyrinth, at least labyrinth runs associated with ascendancy points rather than farming.

you go somewhere outside poe to find trading deals, so going outside poe for any other game reason is ok.

lab is one of the most profitable farm ingame vs time spent, second after breachlord gamble.

I'm sure that you're correct but I'm not talking about the more elite PoE players that post in this forum. Most people do not trade just like I suspect most people never farm labyrinth. They just play through the story line of the game and then maybe dabble a bit in early level maps. Those people may occasionally reference the PoE wiki but would never look for lab layouts and probably don't even know that such a thing exists. These folks would probably want to ascend their characters though, at least for the first few ascendancy points but probably never complete endgame labyrinth.

"

Turtledove wrote:

I'm sure that you're correct but I'm not talking about the more elite PoE players that post in this forum. Most people do not trade just like I suspect most people never farm labyrinth. They just play through the story line of the game and then maybe dabble a bit in early level maps. Those people may occasionally reference the PoE wiki but would never look for lab layouts and probably don't even know that such a thing exists. These folks would probably want to ascend their characters though, at least for the first few ascendancy points but probably never complete endgame labyrinth.

It's interesting how the people that are apologists for the current state of lab have no problem admitting that they use poelab, while never realizing why something like poe lab exists in the first place.

It's truly an amazing irony.

From my perspective as an old d2/LOD player, a game that this one is very unapologetically based on, using a map hack to display the map giving another player an unfair advantage and boost in speed was an offense you got banned for.

Now I understand fully that the devs here have made no such statements, to my knowledge, about such a site, and I don't know you would even enforce such a thing. But the people saying it's not a cheat are deluding themselves.

Why not just have it in game then?

At the plaque:

Dear player, here is today's map layout of the random labyrinth. Argus is in room 4 at the bottom right of the room, Izaro will be featuring gargoyles and will be using maces. Oh, and there is a really good shrine in hidden room 6 towards the left.

Please see the arrows on the lab floor for the fastest route to the content. Here are your quicksilver flasks and a pumped up regalia so you don't have to worry like those lifer melee people.. gg.

"

ewolow wrote:

Now I understand fully that the devs here have made no such statements, to my knowledge, about such a site, and I don't know you would even enforce such a thing. But the people saying it's not a cheat are deluding themselves.

Why not just have it in game then?

At the plaque:

Dear player, here is today's map layout of the random labyrinth. Argus is in room 4 at the bottom right of the room, Izaro will be featuring gargoyles and will be using maces. Oh, and there is a really good shrine in hidden room 6 towards the left.

Please see the arrows on the lab floor for the fastest route to the content. Here are your quicksilver flasks and a pumped up regalia so you don't have to worry like those lifer melee people.. gg.

They supported the community sharing information about the lab since day 1 it was design as such, just like tempest and warbands.


Keep talking like you know anything, when its clear you dont.


The reason to not have it in the game is that it takes a community effort to get all the little secrets and shit, its not force feed, its available after a little bit if you would like to know what is going on.

"

j33bus wrote:

"

CaliforniaPyro wrote:

I have zero problems beating uber lab on bascially any char I play. Dodging traps is easy.
However, I hate lab and wish it would burn in hell. It's stupid as fuck, especially to standard league players who are choosing to play standard because they don't want to deal with hardcore mechanics.

The fanboi flowers who always crop up to insult people who don't like lab tend to always sound the same. They tell you that you don't know how to do it, basically LEARN TO PLAY.

Fuck you. I know how to play and uber lab is easy as fuck and I hate playing it.
So go measure your penis elsewhere.

The truth is the majority of POE players hate lab. end of story. GGG should figure out some simple fixes.... actually it's all been suggested to them. Just implement some of the community ideas.

Ok what do you hate about the lab that is actually different than the rest of the game? Traps? A checkpoint a little further back? I know you like to think the majority of people think like you, but seriously do you honestly believe that the majority of people give two shits either way? It's just an angry fad that most people wouldn't have given a second thought to normally. The lab is hardly different enough content to warrant anything remotely similar to the response it's getting, and the constant cropping up hate threads got people to push back from the vitriol against it, because frankly there was a new thread saying nothing of substance cropping up every hour for a long time.

That said GGG has actual data and seem to think people mostly like the lab or are at least neutral about it. So ask yourself, how is the lab that different from the rest of the game, or at least the pre mapping leveling process?

yes thank you for asking. What is different is the traps and how they damage the player and the lack of being able to portal out when needed.

The length of it I don't care about. it's one of those classic things in POE where you can do it in 5 mins or 45 mins... really depends on your skill and how you purposely approach the game. That's neat, but I understand newer players feeling like crap... because of the above two problems.

1) they can't portal out at any point to take a break, answer the phone, answer the door, take a piss
2) the traps are totally foreign to the rest of the game and so over tuned that they are often times the most dangerous part of lab for many many builds and players.


See, players can learn the izaro fight, and they can dodge around him, and get their damage and defences to the point of being able to beat him... but still die to traps in some bullshit endless trap section.

Endless trap sections are complete bullshit. They aren't even hard with the right characters, but can prove to be impossible for many newer players/builds where they just die and run it again hoping for no endless trap. Basically just rerolling the map like in D3.

And they do not have data saying players LIKE it or APPROVE of it. Have you EVER been given that survey? You know they would do a survey to figure that out, right? Have you ever even heard of of a player survey from GGG? No. They have data on how many people do lab, and how many people do it ONE TIME, and how many people quit before doing it 4 times... general stuff like that. But the fact that 95% of players do it 4 times ONCE... doesn't mean ANY Of those people like it AT ALL (or whatever their data numbers are).

Like the case I made with WHITE leaguestones. I'm sure GGG will see LOTS OF THEM being used, but the fact that we're using them doesn't mean we LIKE THEM. Maybe we are using them because we basically have to, because they are better than normal map rolls, but not because we enjoy them or because they are a hook that will keep up playing. In fact, if you survey'd the players " Do you find white leaguestones 1) enjoyable, 2) mildly enjoyable, 3)don't care, 4) boring, 5) offensive"

And allowed the survey to be BLIND, so the player feels comfortable answering, they would get REAL DATA about PLAYERS OPINIONS.

I agree they shouldn't just take suggestions off of this forum. GOD NO

So with uber lab the survey to willing players would be "Would you describe Uber Lab to be closest to which of the following 1) Best feature of the game, I love it, 2) It's enjoyable, I run it occasionally even though I have all my points, 3) I run it to get my points and never go back in, 4) It really makes me not want to play the game but I'll do it anyways, 5) I refuse to play POE until you fix Lab"

Again, you will need to survey current and PAST PLAYERS. It is very important for them to get data from PAST PLAYER BASE from unsolicited emails from GGG to those people and combine it with people who are actively playing.

This is called marketing, btw.
After that they would then fix or keep Lab the same depending on the surveys they collect and their professional opinions on the matter, then ADVERTISE their changes to try to bring back past players and encourage current players.

marketing and advertising are not the same thing, but marketing often leads to advertising to a market of people, to let them know the company is willing to conform to that market and attract that market's currency back into the company.