I really hate lab

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mezmery wrote:

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ewolow wrote:

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mezmery wrote:

it's your prob actually. that's what you have in common with every crybaby out here.
you have your own problems, and want someone to fix them for you
PS i play ci

That's what I thought. You can't actually back up a single thing you say and you have your profile set to private.

When someone resorts to name calling I can tell exactly how much they will contribute to discussions and the game itself.

im not crying about single aspect of this game.
you are.
if you were at least 16 y old, you would've known that stuff is fixed by actions, not by crying.

And that is why some of us are waiting for GGG to implement better mechanics regarding "Labyrinth"...

And until 100 gets more incentive like manage it SSF, in high tier maps with adequate risk/reward ratio, with your build of choice, post removal of instant log out, certain boss immunities and one shot mechanics as overtuned auto-attacks, or volatiles/DD, you shouldn't tout 100 as an end goal. It simply isn't.

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mezmery wrote:

you propose a nerf, because you are bad.
that what noobs do in every game.
git gud.

At this point it's clear you have no idea what I am proposing nor do you understand what the complain is.

And "git gud" is something my 10 yr old child says. Are you a 10 yr old child? Because then that would make sense.

You still have no suggestions on how to solve the problem. And there is most definitely a problem as there are multiple posts here and on reddit regarding lab and the dislike for it in it's current configuration.

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sofocle10000 wrote:

im not crying about single aspect of this game.
you are.
if you were at least 16 y old, you would've known that stuff is fixed by actions, not by crying.

And that is why some of us are waiting for GGG to implement better mechanics regarding "Labyrinth"...

And until 100 gets more incentive like manage it SSF, in high tier maps with adequate risk/reward ratio, with your build of choice, post removal of instant log out, certain boss immunities and one shot mechanics as overtuned auto-attacks, or volatiles/DD, you shouldn't tout 100 as an end goal. It simply isn't.[/quote]
you already overdone average return-per-user by orders of magnitude.
git gud or uninstall

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ewolow wrote:

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_Saranghaeyo_ wrote:

Who clears all of Uber Lab though

That argument doesn't even make sense, it's a Level 75 zone, literally worse than a t8 map.

You can do the run in about 5-7 minutes quite easily with a good layout. I actually think CI is pretty good in Lab

The progression in the discussion has been that some peeps farm lab, therefore, don't change lab.

Others want to just get to the end and get their progression.

And others like to farm the enchants.

How do you know what the layout is that you can do the run in 5-7 minutes? I can't even imagine trying to beat all 3 uber izaro fights in 5 minutes, let alone knowing how to run exactly through the lab without using poelab.

CI is great in lab. High life melee builds, not so much. Remember, lab has to work for everyone, not just favorite or lab specific builds.

How many players do you think clear uber lab in 5 minutes? 50%? 30%? 10%? 5%? 1%?

If that number is lower than 30%, why should the game cater to such a low demographic?

Oh I'm not saying I don't use poelab. I definitely do. But once you recognize the patterns and mentally prepare it's quite easy. I see Domain Crossing for example I know that I must run through the Orchard-ish tileset and that I must be prepared to speed through car wash traps and Poison darts. On poelab map there are two exits stacked on top of each other? Okay now I have an idea of how far I gotta run.

The layout a couple of days ago that was Secret Passage + 6 total rooms of travel with the 7th room as a freebie, I got home from work at 5:30 and squeezed in 19 runs before the reset at 8:00. That's about 8 minutes a run.

About balancing content around %, that is a good way too look at it but the devs in this game do not give a shit. Less than 1% of the population who map will reach 100 but the devs do all they can to hold them back. It's just their twisted way of thinking.

I know people who cannot do Atziri normal after 5 years, no one is screaming for balance around that. Just like Atziri, Lab has its own cadence that once you learn it is np.

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ewolow wrote:

How many players do you think clear uber lab in 5 minutes? 50%? 30%? 10%? 5%? 1%?

If that number is lower than 30%, why should the game cater to such a low demographic?

The end game ( all of it ) does cater to such a low demographic, that's how it has always been, from the very start.

Every part of the game favors some builds over others, lab is not different, you need to accept that.
And you can run the lab with VP character too, lab is accessible to any solid endgame builds, seriously.
I guess vaal gem based builds suffer, but maybe GGG never intended those to farm with those gems alone (or almost) to start with.

PS : you see a problem, but maybe GGG sees none, as many other players.

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Fruz wrote:

I guess vaal gem based builds suffer, but maybe GGG never intended those to farm with those gems alone (or almost) to start with.

technical and stability issues, nothing personal

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_Saranghaeyo_ wrote:

Oh I'm not saying I don't use poelab. I definitely do. But once you recognize the patterns and mentally prepare it's quite easy. I see Domain Crossing for example I know that I must run through the Orchard-ish tileset and that I must be prepared to speed through car wash traps and Poison darts. On poelab map there are two exits stacked on top of each other? Okay now I have an idea of how far I gotta run.

The layout a couple of days ago that was Secret Passage + 6 total rooms of travel with the 7th room as a freebie, I got home from work at 5:30 and squeezed in 19 runs before the reset at 8:00. That's about 8 minutes a run.

About balancing content around %, that is a good way too look at it but the devs in this game do not give a shit. Less than 1% of the population who map will reach 100 but the devs do all they can to hold them back. It's just their twisted way of thinking.

I know people who cannot do Atziri normal after 5 years, no one is screaming for balance around that. Just like Atziri, Lab has its own cadence that once you learn it is np.

I just learned about poelab 2 days ago. I've been playing since 2012. Every lab I did was blind using just the map keystones.

In my opinion, if playing efficiently requires use of outside resources for it to not be a frustrating experience, there is definitely a problem.

Being 48 yrs old, I've quite literally been playing video games since they were invented. One thing I learned in my experience that it is a mistake is to cater to your hardcore gamers. They are the ones that get bored and leave the league in 2 weeks. They are the ones that play a game to death and then never touch it again.

I guess my point is this: I started playing this game 2 months before Kripp did. I'm still here contributing to supporter packs. He is not.

I don't need to hit 100 in the league, but it would be nice to be able to have the time to do it and it not be beyond reach of someone that only has a few hours a day to play.

I played Anarchy Online for over a decade and still to date have not seen some of the content. I just didn't have the time.

That said, I've also played D1-D2/LOD and got to do pretty much everything. I have a problem that some people want to turn this game from an arpg to an mmorpg and focus on leveling and time to progression along with having the hardcore "elite" aristocracy like they have in WoW.

If it turns into that, I'm out. I'm done.

Well that reality is already here. There are elite circles who have the tools to do wat more than you or I can.

GGG is fairly lazy in terms of developing in-house tools so we have to rely on 3rd party programs to trade, design characters, do Lab, etc.

They dropped the catering to hardcore gamers about 6 months or so after I joined when they let the power creep go nuts and did 4x unique drop rate buff. They care more about attracting people to temp leagues than giving a shit about long term players

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ewolow wrote:

One thing I learned in my experience that it is a mistake is to cater to your hardcore gamers. They are the ones that get bored and leave the league in 2 weeks. They are the ones that play a game to death and then never touch it again.

PoE would not be here without hardcore gamer.
Poe has all been designed for hardcore gamer to start with, it has always been like this, this is what PoE is.

You can still play it if you are very casual, but better adjust your expectations.
(Not, I'm not to the point were I would consider myself a hardcore gamer, but I'm invested enough in PoE, and I am not expecting to hit 100 and I will likely never beat shaper. But lab is no problem.)

And as said just before, the game is way less hardcore than what it used to be already, lab included.

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Fruz wrote:

The end game ( all of it ) does cater to such a low demographic, that's how it has always been, from the very start.

I've been playing games literally since "Pong". No, it hasn't always been like that. I expect a low percent to have more currency, I expect them to have better items and more items, but gating end game to a specific few is something that came around with the advent of World of Warcraft and similar mmorpgs.

This is not an mmorpg, at least not yet. Arpgs are not intended to have elite aristocratic end game content. Maybe this is something GGG intends, but considering people with jobs and less time to play are more likely to contribute than people that can play 14 hours a day, I'd say, anecdotally, that sounds like a tactical error.

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Fruz wrote:

Every part of the game favors some builds over others, lab is not different, you need to accept that.
And you can run the lab with VP character too, lab is accessible to any solid endgame builds, seriously.
I guess vaal gem based builds suffer, but maybe GGG never intended those to farm with those gems alone (or almost) to start with.

Why do I need to accept that? Why do I not get the opportunity to try and change that to work for everyone? I don't think you've given a good enough argument as to why it shouldn't change. In fact, you made yet another case in which it's partly broken.

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Fruz wrote:

PS : you see a problem, but maybe GGG sees none, as many other players.

GGG may not see a problem, but only if they ignore the dozens of posts, hundreds of players, and reddit posts regarding how much that particular mechanic in the game is disliked in it's current state.

Chris recently stated that he realizes that ascension is no longer regarded as a reward, but rather an intrinsic part of everyone's build.

That recognition is at least a start.