I really hate lab

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Making the first lab the "tutorial" would make the first lab easier, but it wouldn't really fix a bigger problem where the labyrinth traps don't take advantage of the knowledge you learn from the trials. The trials are designed with the assumption that you can be patient and take advantage of openings but the Labyrinth trials are designed under the assumption that you always have some kind of warp or fast movement ability to bypass the damage sources.

Well the game is designed with you having a movement skill. I use Shieldcharge right now which doesn't even move you over terrain. But I need that charge not only in the lab, but also in other situations. And considering that the trials are dealing percentage based damage they likely deal less damage than any high level map boss, which usually oneshots players, while being more random.

People always complain about missing ability to build against traps, I would even go that far as giving them fixed damage. Because that is actually an advantage of them, because you do know how much damage they deal. And even with the current design you can do them easily with abyssus. One thing traps do punish is running blindly into them, which is something the rest of the game doesn't punish enough. Until reaching incredible high maps you hardly need any awareness, if there is a volatile he might take you down a bit, but in lower maps he won't kill you. There is not much damage and players kill fast enough that they avoid most mechanics anyway.

Also in general the trial traps are a lot harder. The lab traps are not designed to be passed with movement skills, they just allow it, while the trials don't. But you don't need it. In most cases if the traps are not hindering your movement or blocking it you can just run through them and you might have 90% chance to survive by really just running through, and those chances go up massively if you charge through with a Quicksilver and a Basalt Flask. So the best strategy for most people might be pretending the traps are not there, hit Quicksilver and Basalt and run.

That wasn't my point. My point was that the trials you find in the acts teach you how to bypass traps, but for the Labyrinth the traps are designed to almost require things that the act trials don't teach as being necessary. It makes turning the first Labyrinth into the tutorial kind of pointless for that reason.

Returning player after 2 and a half years, and I can say that the labyrinth traps are pretty annoying. First of all, they don't match the game's fast, gory, non-stop action vibe, but that's a matter of taste I suppose.

But the main issue, for me at least, is that they don't fit within the game's isometric view at all. I can force myself to take it slow and work the trap layouts if I really want to, but more often than not I find succession of traps down a narrow corridor which will simply lead to my death, no matter my build or my skill. Rotating saw blades after spikes after more rotating blades without a single tile where I can stand still without taking damage, so that I can work my way back or observe.

Either there's a problem with the way trap layouts are generated and it needs to be more permissive, or the concept behind it (corridors of doom you can't anticipate) simply sucks.

PS: love what the Ascendancy classes did to my char.

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JohnWeps wrote:

Returning player after 2 and a half years, and I can say that the labyrinth traps are pretty annoying. First of all, they don't match the game's fast, gory, non-stop action vibe, but that's a matter of taste I suppose.

But the main issue, for me at least, is that they don't fit within the game's isometric view at all. I can force myself to take it slow and work the trap layouts if I really want to, but more often than not I find succession of traps down a narrow corridor which will simply lead to my death, no matter my build or my skill. Rotating saw blades after spikes after more rotating blades without a single tile where I can stand still without taking damage, so that I can work my way back or observe.

Either there's a problem with the way trap layouts are generated and it needs to be more permissive, or the concept behind it (corridors of doom you can't anticipate) simply sucks.

PS: love what the Ascendancy classes did to my char.

Hi JohnWeps, thank you for voicing your opinion on the horrible labyrinth. I've added you to the list at number 745. As the list grows longer our voices grow stronger. Over 300 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 740 posters in support Sorry that your return to PoE was spoiled with the annoying labyrinth. Yes it's true that visibility is very poor in the labyrinth and the map is almost useless for helping to navigate through the annoying, boring and irritating labyrinth.

Joined:
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I hate doing the Lab too. I just do the first 3 and maybe the 4th. I don't even go into any Lab until level 75 on most of my characters.

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ewolow wrote:

Lab breaks that idea somewhat in that silver chests and such are not even close to worth the time investment and that getting to ascension is really the primary goal of doing lab.

Wait, what? Look, I don't like the design of lab, but you're entirely wrong here. Getting silver chest is 100% worth it if and only if there is an intricate locker and/or fifth key. Intricate locker can drop Deaths Door, which is 1-2ex (prices vary heavily, on days with intricate locker and a fairly easy lab, they can drop down to 1ex easily, if no intricate locker for awhile, they are closer to 2ex for now).

Treasure chests at the end are also totally worth it. You can easily get an exalt worth of stuff from one gem treasure chest, for example. And with 5 keys in total, getting an exalt worth of stuff in total is not hard at all.

Problem is though that the only reason people do lab to farm is because the rewards are so good, even if the content itself is tedious and boring.

Also, farming enchants is another great way to make currency. So on days with 5 keys, intricate locker, Argus on mainpath, Izaro mechanics doable for most people (i.e. not like today in Uber, which are in particular deadly with 2h mace), farming lab is the best thing sadly anyone can do. Far better than actually any other content, I would argue. But it's super boring compared to all other content.

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CaliforniaPyro wrote:

I have zero problems beating uber lab on bascially any char I play. Dodging traps is easy.
However, I hate lab and wish it would burn in hell. It's stupid as fuck, especially to standard league players who are choosing to play standard because they don't want to deal with hardcore mechanics.

The fanboi flowers who always crop up to insult people who don't like lab tend to always sound the same. They tell you that you don't know how to do it, basically LEARN TO PLAY.

Fuck you. I know how to play and uber lab is easy as fuck and I hate playing it.
So go measure your penis elsewhere.

The truth is the majority of POE players hate lab. end of story. GGG should figure out some simple fixes.... actually it's all been suggested to them. Just implement some of the community ideas.

+1 except that I play hc.

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Mellowautomata wrote:

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ewolow wrote:

Lab breaks that idea somewhat in that silver chests and such are not even close to worth the time investment and that getting to ascension is really the primary goal of doing lab.

Wait, what? Look, I don't like the design of lab, but you're entirely wrong here. Getting silver chest is 100% worth it if and only if there is an intricate locker and/or fifth key. Intricate locker can drop Deaths Door, which is 1-2ex (prices vary heavily, on days with intricate locker and a fairly easy lab, they can drop down to 1ex easily, if no intricate locker for awhile, they are closer to 2ex for now).

Treasure chests at the end are also totally worth it. You can easily get an exalt worth of stuff from one gem treasure chest, for example. And with 5 keys in total, getting an exalt worth of stuff in total is not hard at all.

Problem is though that the only reason people do lab to farm is because the rewards are so good, even if the content itself is tedious and boring.

I understand that it can be worth it to farm and agree with you. Lab has some great currency drops, but if you do what it sounds like 85% of the player base does and wait till level 75 to do normal/Cruel just for the progression then it's a chore.

My original suggestion wasn't to change the lab much, but rather, once you've already completed it once, the slow way, that you can then choose to portal to the Aspirants trials. You would still need to beat the 3 Izaro fights, but you wouldn't have to wade through the timesink again.

I think may be what the two primary for/against arguments boil down to. Some people like to farm lab and don't want to see it changed, others just see lab as another stop in their progression, like having to beat the dweller of the deep for that skill point.

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Mellowautomata wrote:

Also, farming enchants is another great way to make currency. So on days with 5 keys, intricate locker, Argus on mainpath, Izaro mechanics doable for most people (i.e. not like today in Uber, which are in particular deadly with 2h mace), farming lab is the best thing sadly anyone can do. Far better than actually any other content, I would argue. But it's super boring compared to all other content.

Yesterday was actually the first time I ever went to the poelab website. I always did lab blind and if I found argus, I found argus. Doing it that way takes a LOT more time than a lot of the estimates suggested by posters here. Lab can take 45 minutes to an hour, and that's if you don't die, look for chests/keys and Argus.

A good number of people don't know what weapon Izaro is using, or where the good chests/shrines are and need to find these things themselves. I'm of the opinion that if an external website is needed to properly play the mechanic, then there is a problem.

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ewolow wrote:

Lab can take 45 minutes to an hour, and that's if you don't die, look for chests/keys and Argus.

uberlab run takes between 4.5 min and 15 min(2 silver chest, intricate+curious)
git gud

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mezmery wrote:

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ewolow wrote:

Lab can take 45 minutes to an hour, and that's if you don't die, look for chests/keys and Argus.

uberlab run takes between 4.5 min and 15 min(2 silver chest, intricate+curious)
git gud

15 minutes to clear uber lab?

Clear, not run though spamming flasks, not going to poelab.

You got a link to your youtube video clearing all mobs from uber lab without poelab in 15 minutes?