I really hate lab

"

mezmery wrote:

i wonder what kind of shit builds you are all guys playing. that should be atrocious monstruosities with half of the tree wasted.

Oh, wise one, let us see your GG builds please.

If you're not abusing various skills/mechanics/items, the game feels good. It could of course feel a lot better with a few reworks of certain mechanics (reflect, offscreen projectile damage, Volatiles or certain DD instances not to mention rampant damage scaling).

"

Fruz wrote:

No it isn't.
Get real.

PoE is just a game that GGG develops, and they set what it should and should not be, you don't, and you never ever will.
And GGG has always said that they were developping a game according to their vision, that of a hardcore gamer's team.
From the very start.

But Torturo is right, it has became less and less hardcore, only just saying that Lab has nothing to do here because it gives players a hardcore-like experience is a blatant and pathetic lie, since the original state of the game is about providing a hardcore experience.


And who said that some people did not have a valuable opinion here ? There you go abouttrying to spread fallacies now ... good job.

Show us. Show us a quote where GGG ever said what it is you are asserting. Also, your comment about this game not being based on D2/LOD is just asinine. Clearly you've never played those games and understand the connection.

Define what a "hardcore" experience is for you?

"

Fruz wrote:

Lab does not gate relative to the builds, not more than maps, not more than malachai, etc ....
If you can't do it properly, it's your fault, that is very different.
But I guess that it is easier to tell yourself that it's not your fault because the lab is screwing up your whole build, better do that than try to understand I guess heh.

Strawman much? No one made this argument. At all. Nor did they say they can't do it. Clearly you want to make up your own arguments.

You suggest I'm posting fallacies while creating your own.

The gripe is lab is gated behind a time sink. That is very much a fact. Many people do not like lab in it's current state, another fact. Both of these assertions are evidenced by the sheer volume of "lab sucks" posts both here and on reddit.

"

Fruz wrote:

PS : Thinking that GGG didn't intend and expect people to share the layout of the lab on the internet is delusional at best, stupid at worse.
Like seriously, it's also quite ignorant to be honest.

Again, another argument no one made. You really nailed that straw man.

What was asked, is if lab is such great content and not a time sink, why does a site like poelab exist?

"

mezmery wrote:

From my perspective as an old d2/LOD player, i dont remember anyone from top 200 ladder, who played without maphack (and chickedmod obviously)

Perhaps, but you did get banned for it. There also used to be multilogin cheats so you could trade with your alts or hold a game open.

Eventually people using these things got banned. It certainly wasn't encouraged or even allowed.

Personally I don't care about that, but people saying a game mechanic is wonderful, because they use those things is just asinine.

You could just take let's say 5 sec and go on the steam page and notice that they mention that the game is being developed by hardcore gamers ( just one of the most obvious example ).
The internet is big, it's really not difficult, you can look for it.

And if you cannot be bothered to read the messages here, no reason for me to answer you and repeat myself, by the way.

"

ewolow wrote:

"

Fruz wrote:

Lab does not gate relative to the builds, not more than maps, not more than malachai, etc ....
If you can't do it properly, it's your fault, that is very different.
But I guess that it is easier to tell yourself that it's not your fault because the lab is screwing up your whole build, better do that than try to understand I guess heh.

Strawman much? No one made this argument. At all. Nor did they say they can't do it. Clearly you want to make up your own arguments.

You suggest I'm posting fallacies while creating your own.

"strawman" ???

"

ewolow wrote:

This is why there is variance and mods to maps/zones. It's one thing to have counters and benefits to clearing an area, that's a completely different thing than having *required* content gated to only specific builds. From what I read, this is most certainly not an intention of Chris and the dev team.

Now can you stop blatantly lying please ?

Another strawman ?
lol, no need for specific quotes there ( just by reading this thread, it's pretty obvious ), it wasn't just directed at you but you are pretty salty about about poelab so I guess you're in there too.

By the way, the lab isn't more a time sink that the game overal, the lab takes a very small portion of a character's live if you do it only for the ascendancy points only, the whole game is a time sink .....

"

Fruz wrote:

You could just take let's say 5 sec and go on the steam page and notice that they mention that the game is being developed by hardcore gamers ( just one of the most obvious example ).
The internet is big, it's really not difficult, you can look for it.

And if you cannot be bothered to read the messages here, no reason for me to answer you and repeat myself, by the way.

"strawman" ???

So now "hardcore gamers" which means something very different than "hardcore game" is what you want to go with?

Wiggle all you want, you will be asked until you either prove your assertion or admit you were simply talking out your rear end.

No where in the previous posts did you state any coherent definition of what "hardcore" is to you.

"

Fruz wrote:

Now can you stop blatantly lying please ?

Another strawman ?
lol, no need for specific quotes there ( just by reading this thread, it's pretty obvious ), it wasn't just directed at you but you are pretty salty about about poelab so I guess you're in there too.

I'm not salty about poelab and that's just a red herring (another fallacy btw) to deflect from the question.

Which I will pose again: If lab is so super awesome and not a time sink, why does a resource like Poelab exist?

"

Fruz wrote:

By the way, the lab isn't more a time sink that the game overal, the lab takes a very small portion of a character's live if you do it only for the ascendancy points only, the whole game is a time sink .....

Ok, here we are back to my original point, in an arpg, to someone with limited time, for grinding out alts, lab takes up time better spent doing something else.

Same reason most peeps never do any a4 quests beyond getting the spirit.

"

ewolow wrote:

"

mezmery wrote:

From my perspective as an old d2/LOD player, i dont remember anyone from top 200 ladder, who played without maphack (and chickedmod obviously)

Perhaps, but you did get banned for it. There also used to be multilogin cheats so you could trade with your alts or hold a game open.

Eventually people using these things got banned. It certainly wasn't encouraged or even allowed.

Personally I don't care about that, but people saying a game mechanic is wonderful, because they use those things is just asinine.

i dont remember anyone getting banned for anything except plain expoiting, and defientely not for chiken and maphack. also bots were ignored.

As I said, those information are really easily available on the net, they start building a game according to their vision, aiming at a niche market, I won't bother looking for it if on top of using fallacies you are making absolutely 0 effort, look for it yourself.
Plus basically all old players do know that.


The fallacies are the thing that you are making, and then accusing other's.
That's pretty pathetic to be honest.

Why poelab is there is pretty ... obvious, can you use your common sense for 5 seconds maybe ?
Again, not going to bother trying to explicitly explain everything to you here.
Hints : ladder, efficiency, farm, profit.

And most people just go for the easiest way available, period.
This is why people don't go for merc Malachai unless they want the challenge.

Even with limited time, let's assume that a casual takes .... 50 hours to reach maps ( yes, 50, and I bet some people take much more than that ).
What one hour for the 3 labs ? or even 2 ? It's close to nothing.
If you have limited time, you will see only a limited part of the game, and you can play without the ascendancy point if you choose so.

There are many areas where you probably have never been/tried before, and you want to access very badly one that you don't like ?
...............

"

mezmery wrote:

i dont remember anyone getting banned for anything except plain expoiting, and defientely not for chiken and maphack. also bots were ignored.

Perhaps later when bliz stopped giving a toss, but back in it's prime, peeps got banned left and right for maphack.

Case in point:

https://www.diabloii.net/forums/threads/map-hack-why-is-it-still-illegal.626900/

"

Fruz wrote:

As I said, those information are really easily available on the net, they start building a game according to their vision, aiming at a niche market, I won't bother looking for it if on top of using fallacies you are making absolutely 0 effort, look for it yourself.
Plus basically all old players do know that.

I'm not doing your work for you. You are the one making the assertion, you are the one that needs to back that up.

You cannot, because it most likely doesn't exist.

"

Fruz wrote:

The fallacies are the thing that you are making, and then accusing other's.
That's pretty pathetic to be honest.

Sigh. Yet another fallacy. This one called "Argument from fallacy" You cannot even point out what fallacy you think I'm using. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy

"

Fruz wrote:

Why poelab is there is pretty ... obvious, can you use your common sense for 5 seconds maybe ?
Again, not going to bother trying to explicitly explain everything to you here.
Hints : ladder, efficiency, farm, profit.

I know why it's there, I'm asking you. You hints = "So people can do it faster". That was the answer you are trying so hard to avoid.

"

Fruz wrote:

And most people just go for the easiest way available, period.
This is why people don't go for merc Malachai unless they want the challenge.

I did merc malakai, and not for that reason. Take a look at my achievements for this league. And I consider myself casual, I guess.

"

Fruz wrote:

Even with limited time, let's assume that a casual takes .... 50 hours to reach maps ( yes, 50, and I bet some people take much more than that ).
What one hour for the 3 labs ? or even 2 ? It's close to nothing.
If you have limited time, you will see only a limited part of the game, and you can play without the ascendancy point if you choose so.

There are many areas where you probably have never been/tried before, and you want to access very badly one that you don't like ?
...............

So now it's 1 hour for all three labs? What happened to the only 5 minutes bs? You can't seem to wrap your head around the fact that there are a lot of people that do not like the mechanics of lab and you want to wander off into some red herring about maps.

With limited time, time is better spent doing something constructive than sitting there waiting for a spike trap to cycle. Yes. Not a difficult concept to understand.

You know, when I use something well known ( basically common knowledge ) to make a point, if you don't get it, it's fine, I don't care.
"your work" lol ...

If you want to show everybody some ignorance on top of the fact that you are lying, it's your choice.
( Yeah, I don't like liars ).

Let me throw at your face the part where you were blatantly lying, before talking about you accusing others of making fallacies :

"

Fruz wrote:

"

ewolow wrote:

"

Fruz wrote:

Lab does not gate relative to the builds, not more than maps, not more than malachai, etc ....
If you can't do it properly, it's your fault, that is very different.
But I guess that it is easier to tell yourself that it's not your fault because the lab is screwing up your whole build, better do that than try to understand I guess heh.

Strawman much? No one made this argument. At all. Nor did they say they can't do it. Clearly you want to make up your own arguments.

You suggest I'm posting fallacies while creating your own.

"strawman" ???

"

ewolow wrote:

This is why there is variance and mods to maps/zones. It's one thing to have counters and benefits to clearing an area, that's a completely different thing than having *required* content gated to only specific builds. From what I read, this is most certainly not an intention of Chris and the dev team.

One word here : pathetic.

So you mean that you are wasting everybody's time asking questions for no purpose ? ( I mean, you have been showing quite some ignorance before, so it's hard to tell what you would know or not know here tbh ).
Nice.

What do people care if you have done merc Malachai this league ? like seriously ? Oo
It is of absolutely no relevance here.



5 mins bs ?
Now you are trying to put words that I never said in my mouth ? More fallacies from you, the list goes on ....

Stop with the bad faith for a second, the time spent "waiting" for traps is really ridiculously low. That frustrates you, sure no problem.
But that part isn't about time.
You don't like the lab ?
We got that, you have been trying to make excuses as why the lab is so bad, showing that you just didn't understand it and were not good at it, and you seem to keep wanting to go that way and waste your "limited time" on the forums.
Good job.
Pretty toxic behaviour overall, you're not the only one around here doing that though.

PS : the time you took to write that last post is like ... more than all of the waiting time of one of my lab run put together.
*sigh*