[Reddit discusses forums] Chris has now posted

I've seen a lot of hate towards bambi, I_NO and Boem.

I've seen all 3 of them make a lot interesting posts, raise valid points. I've seen people hate on them just because they have a not-so-orthodox way of expressing themselves too, like Boem's sig.

Sure there will be the one-liner trolly comments here and there. Who the fuck cares. It's the Internet, nn to be all serious here.

Reading an Apathy legitimate complaint post full of fuck's and shit's is more interesting than reading the same bland, tasteless "GG GGG" "Game is perfectly fine, luv u GGG" posts over and over again.

Maybe that's just me doe.

fake edit: my point wasn't to make fun of anyone here, whether it's on the main forums or Reddit. I just wanted to point out that the so-called trolls here are really not as bad as some people make it sound...

I'm sure GGG would rather listen to people having an honest opinion about their game than listen to some SJW with no opinion.

Also, if a simple signature rustles your jimmies that much... I don't know what to say.

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Drumheller wrote:

Spoiler

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lethal_papercut wrote:

Do you think people just quit off the bat? I will give you my own personal anecdote, a certain person riles me up no end with what he posts, the way he posts, the frequency of his posts & due to his presence being in almost every thread going I couldn't read the forum without being subjected to his 'content' on every page, so I tried to ignore him, but he is everywhere, so I try to counter him, but his responses do nothing but to add fuel to the fire, so I get mad and call him out, then I get probated and his posts stay put. So I cool off, come back and it happens again, an again, so I say fuck it and just go to reddit where Chris posts regularly, the latest info is always top spot and the person I can't stand isn't really there.

So what did I do wrong? What is the correct response? Should I still be here butting heads with trollish individuals and getting probations?

This EXACT scenario has lead to several people moving to Reddit.

Someone at Reddit asked why people don't like the official forums. Several answered. People in this thread don't like the answers.

OK, we gave the reasons. If those reasons are viewed as bad, fine, but understand people spoke up on why people are leaving.

Read his last sentence though, the answer to that is simply "no, you should not" the end.

As for the answers given, they are neither bad nor right in my opinion. Though i think it's poor argumentation and a bad logical deduction.

Peace,

-Boem-

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Kricys wrote:

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Bars wrote:

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Kricys wrote:

How so? Imagine being in his shoes, it's no wonder Chris prefers discussions on reddit. Its an unorganized disaster in here and if he does give it a shot all he's gonna read is posts from the same 5 dudes in every thread.
Call it what you want, popularity contest, whatever but garbage should be buried.

False. Have you even seen threads started by GGG, Chris included, in the Development Manifesto section?

You are biased.

The top 5 most prolific posters in the forum have become much more visible lately because the general forum activity is at a steep decline, while they keep posting. They stand out. They are, however, mostly active in certain threads and subforums.

All the dev manifestos i read on reddit. Steep decline hmm... wonder why.

We are running in circles. Repeating for the Nth+1 time: because of the forum's bad moderation policy. Also, if you don't even bother to read dev manifestoes here, it is a bit presumptuous to say what will happen if Chris posts.

Since I edited my post twice and you probably didn't see, copy/paste:


You simply prefer the voting system: that's fine. This forum is different. What's an unorganized disaster to you is just how others want it to be. I don't go to reddit to tell them how they are all zombies and sheep and so forth just because I don't like their mode of communication. Not that such posts would be given a chance there.

A lot of posts in this thread can be boiled down to 'I want the forum to be like Reddit'. I will similarly simplify my position to 'I don't'.


I have a feeling this discussion is rapidly degrading and nothing new or valuable has been said for some time. I think it's time to move away, at least for me. Unless I see something new, not the same things repeated again and again.

@Lethal_Papercut
I have a question. I remember your nick in combination in probation with the "Please keep the discussion constructive..." mod copypasting in 2013.
In the Code of Conduct thread you posted that you'd quit the forum forever if Charan became a MVP, therefore isn't it more likely that the moderation and some hate towards Charan drove you away?
Sure spam by the spammers can be annoying but and I don't know why the moderation doesn't delete those postings. I reported postings in few of my threads I wanted to have removed because they moved the discussion into a similar topic but not in a way I wanted.
Others create pointless topics and they are left alone. But that's a fault of the moderation and not the spammers.
In other forums mods usually purge spam of certain users without punishing them with the question if it's holiday again.
If they constantly get their postings deleted they will stop spamming. But what I see so far is that the 90% of the spam stays and they are put on probation when they overdid spamming.

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goetzjam ...

Might somebody enlighten me who goetzjam is? Did he used another nick in the past?

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Drumheller wrote:

I'm not a fan of the upvote / downvote system but, as others have stated, perhaps that would allow us to downvote the negative and junk posts that GGG turns a blind eye to.

The problem is that downvoting are haters, sheeple and peer pressure. "You don't downvote him you aren't cool"

I hit the mark with a "jobless nolifing RMTer" back in 2012 who is still playing, he is known to be a hater. He even started hating former friends and is known as a dramaqueen on reddit. Yet he constantly brags how much he hates Cybrix, Zenocide, Me, [random superior racer] or [former friend]. Given his followers no matter what I would post I'd constantly receive 5 downvotes by the same people.
To me and those people he is entirely irrelevant.

Charan could do whatever he feels he would be constantly on -10 or less because "it's cool hating him". The reddit has shown the perfect example not a single posting is visible.


But what if people had to add something min 10 words like an amazon/ebay review meaining it's not anonymous why the post has been downvoted? Then people could easily write something: "This post has no valuable information it's only a meme picture to derail the thread" downvoting for example "Because it's Charan and I don't like him" would be invalid.
On the opposite GGG devs farm upvotes because they are devs no matter if the posting is good or bad. I remember only 2 cases where a dev was in the negative. One time a dev suggested to make a bugfix a MTX and another time it was Bex about Naming and Shaming posting something like "We only follow the guidelines we don't allow naming and shaming, email support"


If the forums include a voting system you have to make it difficult to "farm Karma" with effortless postings or "downvote for fun" you could only vote for a period of time and the author should be able to remove his down/upvotes on request by support. For example "Hurpa Durpa lol rofl bla...."

If people had their name and state why they up/downvoted certain postings fandom/hatevoting will be heavily reduced.
And yes GGG should be included. I can easily explain why I would downvote for example vague patch notes that say "Slightly reduced the damage" "Increased the damage a tiny bit".

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He mostly fools around and writes funny and silly stuff, is a friendly and relaxed type of guy - what the fuck is your problem with him?

Posts+reports to play the probationgame most likely. He got me probated twice, so now I join his game and get him probated by my reports as well. Not really a problem I consider it a game against him now.

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I take issue with inequality and hostility. If a new player signs up, starts a thread, and then calls someone 'stupid', he will be warned on first offense. If he continues, he may be given probation. On the flipside, there are others who can stomp all over others, saying horribly cruel things, and it takes about 100 of those posts before the moderators finally take action.

When that new player sees that, how long is he going to stick around?

That's not true. I already stated that Charan knows how to express himself(I think he studied English language or is really well-read). People misunderstand him and assume he wrote that way to act superior and started to bully them. They respond offended and THAT'S a point where you can critisize him he adds salt to the wound, makes the other user feel stupid.
Those postings aren't against the guidelines per se but it's unnecessary. You can't expect everybody be an intellectual on a gameforum. There are science and code boards where most people are indeed intellectuals and nobody tries to make other look stupid but they rather insult somebody as "lazy idiot" if they didn't read certain paper or made a common mistake.
Not sure but I think /r/science was also in the top10 of the worst reddits.

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Charan has publicly shit all over people on this forum for years (I've been here since Jan 2013) and the mods, for the most part, handle him with kid gloves. Others are not treated the same way. The entire reason I, and several others, learned about Charan was because we witnessed the uneven moderation and wondered why he was given special permission to treat other people like shit.

That's just wrong till late 2013 there wasn't a rule that disallowed hateful postings.
You even had feedback like https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/119235/ without consequences unless you posted porn, malware and so on.
Then after some big quarrel including Charan(he got probated as well) the no hate rule was introduced.
Charan is just far more patient than others like for example me. If you remove my 2 naming and shaming of RMTer probations, 1 attack against a streamer(looks like I hit the mark since he quit some months later), 1 probation for calling a whiteknight a whiteknight, 3 pointless probations(1 quote, 1 time pointing out karma, 1 time "Advocating RMT" even it was just saying people RMT here), you can sum up all my probations in "Bashing the balance devs the workpractice for ignoring feedback and mmoficating the game".

If I had the patience and eloquency of Charan and GGG banned RMTers only 2 pointless probations would have left. The Whiteknight would have gone under the rug because that was caused by history, the pointless advocating RMT would never have happened because you need to have evil intend to read the posting as "Start RMTing", streamer attack wouldn't have happened because of patience.
The illusion created to be immune to punishment is caused by the unnecessary putting salt in the wound by Charan.

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Anyway, in the past 1-2 weeks I've observed a noticeable change in the moderation policy:
- much, much less probations - I should've been probated once or twice; a guy in this thread wrote something pretty nasty which would've landed him in probation immediately
- much, much less locked threads

The new rules are in effect since 3 days. My last probation caused by nait2k4 report was 5 days ago. If I see such pointless probations of people being critical you can be certain that people will open threads about Kim-Yong Un, Fidel Castroo and report every critical posting because they aren't sugarcoating them.

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With all due respect Sarah, you, the other mods and the mod policy is as much to blame for the decline of the forums as the spam artists. You are in the top reasons as to why people no longer want to come here, your moderation has pushed people away to 3rd party sites as they do not want to deal with you or your OTT policies.

If the mods aren't alts of old time moderators you can't blame them their accounts are pretty new.
On the other side there are tons of support accs I never heard again of like Julia_GGG, Jackson_GGG and others.



TBH deleting spamposts is more than enough what's more annoying to me are they whiteknights that always posts stuff like "GGG is always right, your toaster is shit buy a new highend pc + ssd" or "GGG is always right just L2P."
Those are the players driving people away from forums and game.
Selfdeclared elitism even it's unwarranted.

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then I get probated and his posts stay put. So I cool off, come back and it happens again, an again, so I say fuck it and just go to reddit where Chris posts regularly, the latest info is always top spot and the person I can't stand isn't really there.

Erm before I went into "Shit on Balance Devs mode" you were one of the users constantly on week long probations for Ad Hominem remarks. The time I remember there was Bambi (GrammarPolice that time the usual spam), DirkAustin(ad hominem), Bhavv(spam+ adhominem) and you constantly on probation.
"Peace boem"(started that 2014), nait2k4 (did he even post back then?)
The only names that would fit into the spamcriteria that time of the redditthread most mentioned names would be I_NO, Charan, Bambi and Sexcalibure.

If you want to use spam as reason you have to blame the mods back then for browsing the posting history of blacklisted users instead of deleting spam.

I can easily point out some of your old postings and you tell me how the mentioned people in reddit caused that:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/512221/page/7#p4564688

While browsing your posting history I found postings I find annoying even not directed at me:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/518178/page/2#p4623246

While we are at spam you also spammed pointless images like:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/595469/page/23#p5249628

Yes I saw postings of you that were hostile towards Charan or Bambi but the removed postings and your probations weren't caused by them. Then you spammed pictures into threads or posted QQ thread as well. So how is your spam any different from those mentioned in the reddit thread?

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Bars wrote:

I think it's time to move away, at least for me. Unless I see something new, not the same things repeated again and again.

Nailed it. Now you get why people left. You said it yourself, steep decline. Moderation doesn't have to be a problem. Upvotes/downvites self moderate fairly well, a shitpost or say... a post with an annoying signature taking up unnecessary space will never be seen.

I'm not sure what mental gymnastics it takes to have your name upvoted to the top comments on why the forums sucks posts and still accept zero liability. Boem, you might think you sig is a sincere nod to all and sundry but here in reality world it gets people's backs up after so long and just makes them think you are a bit weird.

@lethal_papercut



Please respond to that part of my posting.
I want to know how your postings are different from those people called out on reddit.

To me you are quiet much the same including some postings that have the type of posting I dislike even you aren't one of that type of posters in my memory because the ones I have in my memory were white knights.

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Kricys wrote:

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Bars wrote:

I think it's time to move away, at least for me. Unless I see something new, not the same things repeated again and again.

Nailed it. Now you get why people left. You said it yourself, steep decline. Moderation doesn't have to be a problem. Upvotes/downvites self moderate fairly well, a shitpost or say... a post with an annoying signature taking up unnecessary space will never be seen.

You continue with the selective interpretation.

Fine, I won't leave. If you choose to ignore arguments which don't suit your personal agenda, I will choose to continue repeating them.

I've observed the forum for a period of two years. What you are claiming to be the problem, a) a few active posters and b) the forum not being like reddit, was present all this time. The steep decline happened after they changed the moderation policy. The moderation policy was also pointed out repeatedly in the reddit thread. Since reddit allows personal attacks if they coincide with the popular opinion, some highly visible users were also mentioned repeatedly and people happily jumped on the bandwagon, which is typical herd mentality and common vindictiveness. Crowds are mean.

You are not here to have a real discussion. You are here to pursue your agenda of hating on certain users and insisting the forum to become reddified. You consistently ignore arguments you don't like or can't dispute and misquote and misinterpret posts.

I really don't understand why people have a problem with Boem's signature. It's just a signature. I don't even read it half the time when I read his posts because I automatically tune it out. I don't get it. whats the big deal?

Hilbert, your memory doesn't serve you as well as your post trawling. I have only been on probation 2 maybe 3 times, for 24hrs and they were all due to me calling out the same person. I have never been on probation for anything other than calling that person 'antagonistic remarks'.

The 3 posts you pulled up I still stand behind and would post again. Witt came across as someone living under a rock in that thread and to try and argue a corporate logo isn't a logo just because he had never seen it before was...silly.

The post to ventiman was one of my weaker posts but that was born out of frustration that someone wanted the game changed just because they had a bad build.

And the last thread was literal cancer, I nearly vomited in my mouth reading it and it had no place on these forums, utter garbage.

I don't see that as spam tho, nowhere near the crap that the usual suspects pump out on a daily basis. I guess you failed to trawl past the 3000+ word review I did of the game going from closed beta into full release? I am not here to say that my posts were the best shit on the forum but I damn well know that I am not one of the people listed in the thread as to why nobody comes here anymore.

Try again.