[Reddit discusses forums] Chris has now posted

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davidnn5 wrote:

The synopsis of this thread:

- don't like upvote/downvote
- reddit sucks
- okay some people don't like me or my posts but some do so I'm not going to do anything (except keep responding)

Meanwhile reddit produces content like this:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hG_ninx1E_1qxeGbw-PhPIeBUlFFgveldlg2P0wPRDM/htmlview?usp=sharing&sle=true

*shrug - proof's in the pudding*

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

feeling the love, my droogs. Feeling the love.

As I said over there, I feel a 'best answer' system as proposed by the worthy Skyforth and reinforced by the renascent lethal_papercut would be superior. When you're talking about creating a hierarchy, simply highlighting what is good can work just as well as simultaneously hiding what is deemed not so good. Those seeking the best, most relevant answers can access them quickly, without the implicit 'victimisation' inherent to downvoting. If you want to engender an 'all good' environment, remove things that even vaguely resemble disapproval IF lack-of-approval serves the same function.

Honestly, the big, big, big problem with this forum is still the UI and the functionality. I use google to search the forum more often than that. We don't have things like nesting, subscribing to threads, notifications of responses...these are things most of us have taken for granted from WELL before PoE was even a thing. All fucking kudos to the GGGang for creating their own forum with embedded item linking, but come on. We've been using this system since the days when /online gave a response of a hundred people or less. What worked then, simply doesn't work now.

Preaching to the choir; They know.

As for name-and-shame: some of you know I ran a name-and-shame thread back during late Closed Beta, back when naming-and-shaming was actually much more important because 'trading' involved a LOT of trust and scamming someone, stealing their stuff, took no more effort than not dropping your gear on time. GGG made the clear stipulation they would not react to any content in that thread, that it was purely for PSA. It was a massive failure, because although people felt we needed a PSA thread, with the authorities themselves stating it wouldn't affect their operations, people figured 'what's the point?'...So my biggest advice then is as now: if you want to name and shame, make your own place to do so. I believe it will never, ever be on GGG's agenda to investigate every single claim of this nature because they just don't have the resources.

It's curious to note that I've been playing a lot of Guild Wars 2 lately. Just playing. No community involvement. But I glance at the forums and they have *no OT board anymore*. This might seem draconian, and I've been told it was closed because they just couldn't moderate it effectively, but let's be honest: we no longer live in an age where a game's official forum NEEDS to play host to anything but civil, constructive discussion of that game. We have subreddits, guild fora, gamefaqs...all these other places to sound off or fartarse about. In that light, I have to accept that IF GGG were to be even stricter here, to really create an facade of congeniality to a point where it's actually no longer a facade, I think we'd all be okay. We'd all live.

And I also think this would increase the significance of those off-site resources. I would totally use reddit and MonstaMunch's gathering place more (ahahha, sorry, I can hear the cries from here) if Sam suddenly said, right that's it, OT is gone, GD is gone, we're having one board for all non-feedback discussion, one for questions and answers, one for suggestions, one for feedback. Would I still post here? Heck yeah. I still LIKE to talk PoE, and to help where I can. Maybe we'd all be more like VPs were that to happen.

And maybe we'd accept that naming-and-shaming *is* necessary (I firmly believe it is) but not something that should be done on the official boards due to the connotation that if it's here, GGG have to act on it. They don't and should not. They created this economy, this market, for a reason: they like the chaos of it, the potential to rip people off if they don't do their research, and the ability to get rich just by being canny. In the case that saw me take a little holiday to redditland, it was one player mocking another for supporting GGG. This isn't something GGG can do anything about, so it really shouldn't be on these boards. But of course it wasn't its presence that caused the problems; it was the method of removal, which seemed poorly explained and abrupt. The whole thing could have been bypassed if we, as players, understood and accepted that posting that sort of thing on reddit or elsewhere is the way to go about raising awareness and rightfully highlighting the terrible behaviour. In other words, while I may have been contentious about the item's removal, I would have obviously been perfectly okay if it had never existed in the first place.

Like or not, I think a stronger synergy between the PoE reddit as a place to let the hair down and here as the place to talk shop would be a good thing. I think that's already how some devs see it, if you look at the tone of their responses on reddit vs the formality of their posts here.

I think it'd be good to remember that Chris Wilson created that subreddit. He moderated it until reddit made a rule stating that was no longer acceptable. Some part of him must be at least a little upset that there's some perceived conflict between there and here, when really, if people do want a place where they can...well, let's not nibble fingers here, avoid people like me, I'm sure they can make a subreddit of their own.

This, of course, all hinges on the possibility of THESE boards turning into a completely sterile, professional environment. I feared that for so long. I fought it. But that was just me in denial. Wanting my cake and eating it too and all that.

This is my last post on the matter. I'll just email support in future, because that's what they tell us to keep doing. I may be stonewalled, I may be approached for further feedback. But I, for one, am starting here and starting now. I am a valued poster. I don't need to wear a badge to believe that, and I certainly don't want yet one more title, given how my existing ones have already incensed some people, and those were just silly 'paid for' tags that should carry no more weight than any other, that weight being: I love what GGG have done and this is how I show it.

I still don't like the title itself, 'Valued Poster'. It is just too broad, too ambiguous. This comes back to potential of the best answer system: instead of people being nominated and allocated the badge like a prize, wouldn't it be lovely if the tag came with a threshold for 'best answers' or 'approved responses'? That's the power of the people without overt delegation or any sort of political angling. It's hard to cry favouritism when the proof is right there: this person has consistently given responses people find useful and productive. They're right there. And that badge is proof. Whatever it might be. Super User. Veteran. Game Guru. Whatever. Something to avoid the implicit connotation that anyone who doesn't have a tag handed out by GGG that says 'Valued Poster' might not be a valued poster.

Anyway. This isn't an essay so I don't have a nice conclusion reiterating my introduction based on what we learned in the body. Sorry. Just another rant, I guess. Thanks for reading.

Let's get on with getting on.

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Any news on this upvote/downvote system yet ?

I'm getting tired of having to actually make a reply and manually type /downvote or /upvote.I can't wait until my vote will be anonymous and I can stick it to those I dislike,like a true man without fear of them knowing who and why it was that downvoted them.