Ways to balance low-life shavronnes builds and daggerers/wanders

ST needs no major overhaul. Numbers are round about fine, maybe 20% up, 20% down - same thing. Wanders are around same clearspeed, same as Windrippers.

However, whilst I disagree that low-life needs an overhaul - it doesn't, the concept is fine, expensive gear should return results - I consider the numbers utterly retarded.

Just tweak the numbers, for e.g. atm - lowlife mirrored does about 200k GMP spectral - everyone would be perfectly happy if that was 80k. Non-mirrored setups still get their fun at around 40k.

40k is still uber-capable, it's still capable of creaming 78 maps - the numbers that low-life achieves now is just unnecessary.

That's almost a 60% nerf.

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Startkabels wrote:

This topic has everything to do with ST, look at what OP is using: A dagger with ST, just like the majority of Shav+CoE users.

I'm not even saying I don't support a change to those uniques but everybody is ignoring the design flaw of ST.

Look OP posted another suggestion here: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/980935
In which he is again advertising nerfs to auras, just like he wants a nerf for CoC.

So why is everybody ignoring ST? I can answer that myself: Because not many are melee and the design flaw of ST is not necessary a problem for non melees as there are other options for them like wands or bows. But what they don't see is that skills like Power Siphon or Bow skills use a completely different design.

No. The imbalance between melee and ST is there but it is nowhere near as huge (HUGE) as what the low-life does out of it compared to a normal life or ci build.

Therefore, when balancing, the priority must be on fixing the huge imbalance first and then revisit if ST is still not enough in line with melee or not.

Again I myself am convinced that the next problem is not ST but crits. ST is nothing if it doesnt crit. If it crits the whole screen with returning projectiles then it is getting a problem. So the second huge thing to deal with for GGG is crit. Dagger in particular.

Then, the next thing is the aoe that ST in these builds that use crit (dagger) and low-life (shavs) provide.
I suggest to fix it with tweaking LMP/GMP/CHAIN etc. crit chance/multiplyer penalties to account for multiplied benefits from LMP/GMP/CHAIN etc. for crit builds compared to non- or low-crit builds.

In the end there is ST which probably will be something completely else than it is now after other stuff has been changed. It might need to get nerfed or buffed then (depending on the other changes) but at least its safe to say that it has the 4th priority in this list just for the sake of not having to do things twice.

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Chundadragon wrote:

ST needs no major overhaul. Numbers are round about fine, maybe 20% up, 20% down - same thing. Wanders are around same clearspeed, same as Windrippers.

However, whilst I disagree that low-life needs an overhaul - it doesn't, the concept is fine, expensive gear should return results - I consider the numbers utterly retarded.

Just tweak the numbers, for e.g. atm - lowlife mirrored does about 200k GMP spectral - everyone would be perfectly happy if that was 80k. Non-mirrored setups still get their fun at around 40k.

40k is still uber-capable, it's still capable of creaming 78 maps - the numbers that low-life achieves now is just unnecessary.

That's almost a 60% nerf.

A reasonable post but imo still to restrictive and cautious.

The same way you could argue that a mirrored dagger should be better than the mirrored sword equivalent because expensive gear needs to be outstanding and to mirror the dagger you have to pay more mirrorfee than to mirror the sword.

The truth is:
- prices are player made and are as they are due to the level of overpowerdness of stuff.
- good gear will always stay expensive no matter what is going to be changed.
- I don't see why a shavs should be more valuable than a 5/6 tier 1 ES, life or hybrid chest. It is only because low-life is as op as it is.


In numbers, roughly (shavs+dagger+ST):
map clearing: 200-300% op
in bossfights: 1000-5000% op

All other low-life builds queue behind this and are still op but not as huge as this combination. Therefore the complain goes mostly into the ST direction even tho it is dagger+low-life to be blamed.

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LSN wrote:

Again I myself am convinced that the next problem is not ST but crits. ST is nothing if it doesnt crit. If it crits the whole screen with returning projectiles then it is getting a problem. So the second huge thing to deal with for GGG is crit. Dagger in particular.

Then, the next thing is the aoe that ST in these builds that use crit (dagger) and low-life (shavs) provide.
I suggest to fix it with tweaking LMP/GMP/CHAIN etc. crit chance/multiplyer penalties to account for multiplied benefits from LMP/GMP/CHAIN etc. for crit builds compared to non- or low-crit builds.

My suggestion would be to design ST simular to for example Power Siphon or Bow skills: It should work for specific weapons such as throwing weapons. That way ST is addressed concerning crit but also concerning melee.

Lol at these balance people.

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I_NO wrote:

Lol at these balance people.

I think Startkabels actually has a point about limiting ST to a weapon type. The rest is an echo chamber, and every suggestion burns down the forest when they are ostensibly aiming for a few leaves.

I stop playing the game for 8 months, come back and people are still whining about Shavronnes. Jesus christ, will you ever stop?

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nynyny wrote:

I stop playing the game for 8 months, come back and people are still whining about Shavronnes. Jesus christ, will you ever stop?

lol

it's funny you say this because 8 months ago the shav builds being used were an absolute joke compare to the coe/shav builds in current usage.

the gap has widened by a ridiculous amount

time for you to relearn the meta, i guess

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Veruski wrote:

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nynyny wrote:

I stop playing the game for 8 months, come back and people are still whining about Shavronnes. Jesus christ, will you ever stop?

lol

it's funny you say this because 8 months ago the shav builds being used were an absolute joke compare to the coe/shav builds in current usage.

the gap has widened by a ridiculous amount

time for you to relearn the meta, i guess

From what I have heard from friends thats not really because of Shavronnes, its because of the way attack based skills scale with the ridiculously buffed elemental damage auras. And I can see that being true. When I played the game excessively Shavronnes main perk used to be LL RF and the additional auras, and I am go as far and say that the gap between a properly played LL RF FP build to all the other stuff in the game was pretty big.

This gap didnt increase because of Shavronnes being changed, but because of poor balancing regarding attack based builds and skills/modifiers that influence the damage. Shavronnes itself never was a problem, it wasnt even in OS when everybody ran Shavronnes Spork, but I guess people will never understand that. Its a bunch of other things that end up causing problems.

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From what I have heard from friends thats not really because of Shavronnes, its because of the way attack based skills scale with the ridiculously buffed elemental damage auras

Your friends are wrong. Damage auras are not the issue. The lowlife bonuses combined with CoE are the issue when lowlife already has the ability to run more free auras off life. Crown of eyes letting you make spell damage additive and use the multiplicative pain attunement is what creates the huge DPS numbers. Gttting 70 spell damage off your shield, your weapon and passives is the equivalent of 15+ passives nodes(nodes that don't really exist without huge travel to these damage passives).

I guess damage auras also combine greatly with the huge bloodrage IAS bonus but the issue there is the amount of IAS bloodrage gives for being lowlife.