Ways to balance low-life shavronnes builds and daggerers/wanders

@Startkabels

ST balance has nothing to do with CoE + shav balance which is what this topic is about.

Nerfs to ST is not going to stop the dominance of the shav + CoE combo.

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But Shavs/CoE isnt a directly a single build, its more like the final upgrade to various life based builds. You still have build diversity (bows/wands/ST/melee)

That's true to some degree. Skill diversity remains but a big portion of gear/passive diversity gets left behind. Shavs is pretty much an uncontested gear piece right now that leads to every overpowered build.

Introducing more ways to reach lowlife is a terrible terrible idea. That would ruin the great diversity that still exists at medium high and below wealth levels. Even people with 60 exas still have many options which is a good thing. Lorica being a glass cannon version is fine.

The whole risk/reward portion of lowlife is off which makes the bonuses to lowlife inflated. I don't actually like any of OP's ideas for "fixing" it though since it's actively harming many other builds with mechanics that are far from exclusive to lowlife.

This topic has everything to do with ST, look at what OP is using: A dagger with ST, just like the majority of Shav+CoE users.

I'm not even saying I don't support a change to those uniques but everybody is ignoring the design flaw of ST.

Look OP posted another suggestion here: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/980935
In which he is again advertising nerfs to auras, just like he wants a nerf for CoC.

So why is everybody ignoring ST? I can answer that myself: Because not many are melee and the design flaw of ST is not necessary a problem for non melees as there are other options for them like wands or bows. But what they don't see is that skills like Power Siphon or Bow skills use a completely different design.

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So why is everybody ignoring ST?

Any attack based skill can be incorporated with that combo and it will excel. ST being one of the most effective when you overkill is expected due to its range. The build is not strong because of ST is the point though.

Here's a video with Atziri being done with whirling blades which is notorious for being terrible https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjn3Y9B7mbs

I don't agree with many of OP's ideas like nerfing auras and further nerfing crit multi for some reason(already got a huge nerf last season). I don't think either of those are broken outside this specific combo.

I'm not talking about Whirling Blades, I'm talking about the fact that ST makes live even more easy for these builds, allowing them to pick any melee weapon now and start throwing them around. Gone is the limitation that you do have with Power Siphon or Bows skills for example.

Let alone what ST means for melee.

Look I'm not even going to argue against a change to Shavs + CoE anymore, because I believe all the complainers since I never use those items to begin with.
But I will not stop bringing ST under the attention when everybody keeps ignoring this while all the "OP" builds are using daggers with ST.

I already said that ST is worth discussing but is not the source of strength for this build. There is other topics discussing it so I don't see the point mentioning it here.

I linked the whirling blades video to show you that even the most terrible skills can work great with that combo. Almost any skill can be incorporated with lowlife for optimal results. All attack based builds are already best with it.

I'm pretty much repeating myself at this point.

If you read the OP, this topic is about a lot more than those unique items.

Crackmonster is advertising for nerfs to almost all the components his and many other's characters are build from.

- He wants auras nerfed
- He wants crit or CoC nerfed
- He wants Shavs + CoE nerfed

But he does not mention ST..

And I've been repeating myself for the last week or so....

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kasub wrote:

That's true to some degree. Skill diversity remains but a big portion of gear/passive diversity gets left behind.

because going low life is the ONLY option for all builds to upgrade. ofc the gear/passive diversity is close to zero in the moment when all builds need the same gear to enable low life. Thats why I said, it would make sense to have a few other gears as well which allow you to make a low life build. At least this would bring some gear diversity into the whole low life story. They can be as rare as Shavs/CoE. Low life should stay very very endgame.

I see no other way to bring more diversity into low life, unless you want to nerf low life that hard that life based builds can easily compete. In other words, bring LL back from status being an upgrade to yr life based build and just be another build as any other life based build as well.

Hey, please I don't want to use low life at all?

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Startkabels wrote:

If you read the OP, this topic is about a lot more than those unique items.

Crackmonster is advertising for nerfs to almost all the components his and many other's characters are build from.

- He wants auras nerfed
- He wants crit or CoC nerfed
- He wants Shavs + CoE nerfed

But he does not mention ST..

And I've been repeating myself for the last week or so....

I thought the focus was on the unique build those items create and his suggestions to remedy that.

I do disagree with all his suggestions except possibly the bloodrage part(making it based on life + ES instead of just life). Then again forum suggestions always go for these extremes that would break a huge amount of builds that were never overpowered.

I posted what I think would be the most sound option which is adjusting the lowlife mechanic itself so it doesn't affect other builds.

As for ST, it's just a skill that neither makes or breaks that combo. It has below average single target DPS but allows for greater mobility/range. If ST didn't exist then wanders would probably be the best choice.

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Crackmonster wrote:

Blood rage:

- Reduce attack speed/life leech

- Make chaos drain based on energy shield as well

This gem one of the most overpowered in the game i've been looking at it thinking wtf for over a year at least.

I too have this feeling - I'm quite sure the original intent of this ability was to drain life at a fast pace, but however rewarding big leech. Additionally having CI builds being completely immune to its damage for unique physical CI melee experiences.

Lets not go into details here, but generally speaking Bloodrage should drain ES or maybe ES+life in the same way Rightous fire does. This way you actually need chaos resists to mitigate the damage.
Atm it seems to favorable for a Low life user.