Ways to balance low-life shavronnes builds and daggerers/wanders

"

kasub wrote:

"

From what I have heard from friends thats not really because of Shavronnes, its because of the way attack based skills scale with the ridiculously buffed elemental damage auras

Your friends are wrong. Damage auras are not the issue. The lowlife bonuses themselves are the issue combined with the ability to run more free auras off life. Crown of eyes letting you make spell damage additive and use the multiplicative pain attunement is what creates the huge DPS numbers.

I guess damage auras also combine greatly with the huge bloodrage IAS bonus but the issue there is the amount of IAS bloodrage gives for being lowlife.

I am going as far and claim that the people I talked to know a bit more about the current endgame of this game than you, so I trust their word over yours without even questioning it one bit.

I do find it funny that you bring up BR as a problem though and I hope that you are trying for GGG to nerf it because I know that it always has been a questionable ability. But then again, if its BR why would people want Shavronnes to be nerfed? This is the same problem we had in OS when people wanted an item to be nerfed, even though a simple node was causing all the problems.

On top of that I find it funny that you say that the auras arent the problem, just to say that they are the problem immediately afterwards. The fact that Shavronnes enables you to run more of them doesnt mean that they arent a problem, it actually means the exact opposite.

Let alone that it seem to me that people are stacking glass canon items to achieve a high dps, something that should always be viable. You sacrifice defense for offense. Certainly what they do when they run Shavs + CoE over CI and proper ES gear.

"

I going as far and claim that the people I talked to know a bit more about the current endgame of this game than you, so I trust their word over yours without even questioning it one bit.

You apparently don't know much about endgame so trying to argue on the forums on their behalf is silly. I'm not even sure why you think they know more.

"

But then again, if its BR why would people want Shavronnes to be nerfed?

Not many are advocating for shavs to be nerfed. There is no real point to nerf the item itself. The whole mechanic of what it makes lowlife is what people want to be nerfed or at least changed.

"

On top of that I find it funny that you say that the auras arent the problem, just to say that they are the problem immediately afterwards.

Running more auras on lowlife is not the issue. I was just explaining how lowlife builds already get that inherit bonus combined with many others.

Anyways damage auras themselves work in a balanced manner outside lowlife builds. Nerfing them is just nerfing all elemental builds which already do less damage than physical counterparts.

"

Let alone that it seem to me that people are stacking glass canon items to achieve a high dps, something that should always be viable. You sacrifice defense for offense

These are not glass cannon builds. They regularly farm uber atziri which has the hardest hitting enemies in the game(including in HC). They achieve this through a combination of having decent ES(6k-9k), high elemental resists, damage that's 8 times higher than other builds and huge mobility from high movement and really fast whirling blades. With acuity gloves leech is instant and unmatched, It's quite clear you have never played with the builds or know how they work.

The combination of CoE + shavs is what is specifically being mentioned. The numbers it achieves is completely pointless for the difficulty the current game has.

Shavronnes and Crown of Eyes
- extra auras
- spell damage modifiers applies to attacks

Critical hits
- Critical Strike chance up to 95%
- Critical multiplier stacking too high

Bloodrage
- Massive attack speed on low life
- Massive leech, allows to skip lifeleech gem

Auras
- More damage than perfect weapons, each
- Shock and Freeze everything

LMP/GMP/CHAIN
- Kill the whole screen at once

Atziri's Gloves
- Trivialize all non-oneshots in game
- Skip mana regen entirely

"

You apparently don't know much about endgame so trying to argue on the forums on their behalf is silly. I'm not even sure why you think they know more.

Mainly because I progressed with them to OS Top 50, as well as NE top 50 for the first month, let alone that quite a few of them currently are 92+ in the 1 months HC league while youre a standard player. Nothing against standard, but after all this time I still dont think that a game that provides both playstyles should be balanced around the league in which dying and efficiency barely matters.

"

The whole mechanic of what it makes lowlife is what people want to be nerfed or at least changed.

You realize that this equals a nerf to the item, right? The only perk of it is that it enables LL. By now everything else is complete garbage because they alredy cut of its dick multiple times since it got implemented. Nerfing LL is a nerf to Shavronnes. Without LL providing damage, the payoff for losing so much defense simply isnt worth it.

"

These are not glass cannon builds. They regularly farm uber atziri which has the hardest hitting enemies in the game(including in HC). They achieve this through a combination of having decent ES(6k-9k), high elemental resists, damage that's 8 times higher than other builds and huge mobility from high movement and really fast whirling blades. It's quite clear you have never played with the builds or know how they work.

I know how they work, and the ability to dodge abilities doesnt mean that youre tanky. Neither does the ability to cap your resistances by using all sorts of elemental flasks and auras, thats the point of those items to begin with.

Its the same logic I made LL RF FP viable in Nemesis. You simply stack elemental flasks and youre cool. Running whirling blades for dodging doesnt make you tanky, it simply makes you agile. Something that is a main requirement for being a class canon in a game such as PoE, and a especially against a boss that you cant CC.

Saying they're glass cannons at all is deceiving. The end result is what matters and currently uber atziri is only done in HC with such a build. That's significant when the enemies leading to atziri are quite difficult for many builds. Sure they're more agile than tanky but other much "tankier" builds fail where these lowlife builds succeed. The huge leech from atiziri's acuity has also upped their tankiness factor.

Changing the whole mechanic of lowlife is not completely necessary I guess. Making spell damage half as effective with crown of eyes while diminishing blood rage stats could work.

Currently bloodrage can reach 16 leech and 80+ IAS on lowlife when combined with inner force, enhance and empower.

Personally I dont even feel like strong builds are a problem. You play this game to be powerful and unlike in most titles its a pretty tough road until you finally achieve that point. ARPG are supposed to make you feel strong and PoE does the exact opposite for at least the first 80-85 levels. After a certain point youre finally as strong as you always wanted to be, at which point most people dont even want to play anymore.

If a person invests hundreds a exalted and hours of his time into making a completely broken build then I honestly dont see a problem with that. I never did, and I never will. The main reason is that you dont have a reason to play the build since 4 month leagues arent races, and in most races you cant run proper builds since you spend skillpoints according to what you find.

Being powerful is the goal many want to achieve, so why constantly cut off their legs when they finally arrived at their destination? Your gaming experience isnt really influenced by it at all. The only thing it does is make the items you dont want way more expensive. It feels like the main focus of balancing in this game isnt to improve your own situation but to fuck over others. It has always been the main intention and I doubt that it will ever change. Which is somewhat sad if you ask me.

yeah because it's not like many of the same people who have used or are currently using the builds aren't the same people complaining that it's way too strong.

lol

OH WAIT...

really, people who have no idea of the current meta, or no idea of the actual power of these builds (because they haven't played them) shouldn't be talking about it.

you could nerf CoE/shav builds by 80% and they would STILL be able to crush all content in the game.

"

nynyny wrote:

The main reason is that you dont have a reason to play the build since 4 month leagues arent races, and in most races you cant run proper builds since you spend skillpoints according to what you find.

you do realize that some of the people in this thread, including the thread starter, myself, and a few others, played low life CoE in the last 4 month leagues?

no of course not

"

Veruski wrote:

yeah because it's not like many of the same people who have used or are currently using the builds aren't the same people complaining that it's way too strong.

lol

OH WAIT...

really, people who have no idea of the current meta, or no idea of the actual power of these builds (because they haven't played them) shouldn't be talking about it.

you could nerf CoE/shav builds by 80% and they would STILL be able to crush all content in the game.

You dont seem to understand the basic point. There have ALWAYS been build that were strong. Be is Kaom FP, LL RF FP/Spork, BoR ST IB, CI Discharge, pick something.

The meta has been redefined mutliple times, for literally no reason. People constantly request nerfs and changes even though this not being a competitive title. Some spend hundreds of ours into completing something just to see it all wiped and being useless after enough people shed tears on the forums. What exactly does a strong build do to your gaming experience apart from you having to look at people running it? Exactly, nothing. It will rather make the general price of items drop because so many people are zerging through content that you will suddenly find 20 Kaoms instead of just 5 on the forums.

Nerfing powerful builds in a game that is about becoming powerful is a mentally challenged act and serves literally no purpase due to the non existing competitiveness of the genre. I wonder when people will finally understand that. Other builds being more efficient doesnt force you to play them and, at the end of the day, will only make your life easier due to dropping costs on your part.

Change the description of Pain Attunement:
Spells do 30% more damage
Reserves 65% of your life.

Would this solve the "problem"? I think this would prevent the use of running auras off life in exchange for the damage bonus. It seems one complaint is that low life gets both a damage bonus from Pain Attunement and gets more auras since they run them off life.

"

nynyny wrote:

You dont seem to understand the basic point.

You don't seem to have any valid points at all.

"

nynyny wrote:

There have ALWAYS been build that were strong. Be is Kaom FP, LL RF FP/Spork, BoR ST IB, CI Discharge, pick something

None of those are even remotely comparable to the CoE/Shav builds. Nice try tho.

"

nynyny wrote:

What exactly does a strong build do to your gaming experience apart from you having to look at people running it?

Are you fucking serious? It's like playing a deck in MtG and finding some combination that basically cannot lose.

What happpens? That combo gets nerfed (or in MtG terms -- restricted/banned)

You aren't supposed to be able to faceroll PoE. The game was designed specifically to avoid that.

"

nynyny wrote:

due to the non existing competitiveness of the genre.

ARPG's are very competitive by nature, mostly economically. D3 eliminated this by eliminating trading. PoE is not going in that direction, so it stays competitive.