Ways to balance low-life shavronnes builds and daggerers/wanders

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How about a build where just load the map, press 1 button, and everything in the whole map instantly dies? Then you are free to just go around and collect the loot?

If the person worked for it (because thats what you usually need to do) then I dont see a problem with it. After all, thats what most builds did anyway. Thats why you call it trivializing, because you basically walk into a map, press a button and walk out with loot.

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Would that satisfy you? That seems to be what you want out of PoE.

Does it matter to you? Again, if it doesnt satify you then you dont have any reason to play the build. But if it satifies someone else then so be it. Him liking said build certainly wont, or rather shouldnt, make you feel bad about yourself.

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You just seem to have no concept for how stupidly OP the builds we're talking about are.

And you dont seem to have a clue of how irrelevant it is to the point.

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nynyny wrote:

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How about a build where just load the map, press 1 button, and everything in the whole map instantly dies? Then you are free to just go around and collect the loot?

If the person worked for it (because thats what you usually need to do) then I dont see a problem with it.

I guess this sums up why nobody should bother replying to you anymore. Including me.....

I don't really get your point. What exactly are you arguing for? People want change since it restricts the diversity which is what people enjoy. You seem to be arguing with this kneejerk reaction that nerfs are always a bad thing. I guess you haven't realized but GGG actually mainly buffs things and almost everything is more powerful than it has ever been(except cleave/spark/cwdt).

Also by your definition I can call my selffound bloodmagic flame totem build equivalent to CoE + shav builds. It clears content fast and is safe! Endresult is the same. Rares die in a second and bosses take no time either.

That build actually does more damage than some of your examples by the way.

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Veruski wrote:

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nynyny wrote:

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How about a build where just load the map, press 1 button, and everything in the whole map instantly dies? Then you are free to just go around and collect the loot?

If the person worked for it (because thats what you usually need to do) then I dont see a problem with it.

I guess this sums up why nobody should bother replying to you anymore. Including me.....

Lets hope you keep your promise and train for the upcoming tourn... no wait a second I forgot, this wasnt a competitive game.

Hell, even endgame raiding in WoW/ARR/Wildstar/EQ/pick a game is more competitive than endgame farming in PoE will ever be. After all you at least have a goal to reach in those games.

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I don't really get your point. What exactly are you arguing for? People want change since it restricts the diversity which is what people enjoy.

I am arguing that this sort of statement is pants on head retarded. A build doesnt limit diversity, its you being too lazy to think of something yourself and put up with a slower killspeed that limits diversity.

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I guess you haven't realized but GGG actually mainly buffs things and almost everything is more powerful than it has ever been(except cleave/spark/cwdt).

Alright, now this is the most retarded thing I read on this thread today. The patch notes history generally focuses on nerfing popular builds beyond recognition. The fact that it buffs all the skills that are trash doesnt change that.

The focus is on changing the meta and giving into the tears of people such as yourself, nothing else.

Diversity is defined by having many powerful choices that play out differently. PoE has great diversity until you reach high wealth levels. By that definition a powerful build that far surpasses others does indeed limit diversity and generally the fun of the game.

Oh and before you mention that having a super expensive choice is fine, realize it's that expensive because it's so powerful.

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Alright, now this is the most retarded thing I read on this thread today. The patch notes history generally focuses on nerfing popular builds beyond recognition.

You're simply focusing on the nerfs and ignoring the huge buffs. What popular build has gotten nerfed beyond recognition that isn't cleave/spark? GGG has been smart at doing sidebuffs with vaal orbs and improving the passive skilltree but the buffs have gotten substantial over time.

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kasub wrote:

What popular build has gotten nerfed beyond recognition that isn't cleave/spark?

You could make a CoE cleave build that would be exponentially stronger than any past cleave build.

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Diversity is defined by having many powerful choices that play out differently. PoE has great diversity until you reach high wealth levels. By that definition a powerful build that far surpasses others does indeed limit diversity and generally the fun of the game.

And according to yourself you have a rather unusual build that clear shit fast, save and efficient, meaning that youre not as limited as youre trying to showcase here. There are choices for Uber Atziri kills, just because you choose to ignore them doesnt mean that youre limited. Thats not how diversity works in a game that doesnt revolve around competitive gameplay. This isnt Quake were you could argue that theres no reason for using the shotgun because the railgun does everything better so you would end up with a disadvantage in a competitive setting if you didnt use it.

Its a PVE gear grinder in which your killspeed doesnt matter unless you make it matter to yourself. If youre butthurt over X clearing a map faster then that shouldnt be the games problem, it should be your psychiatrists. Strong builds exist, just because one is stronger than the other doesnt make them weak in general (just in comparison which doesnt really matter if the so called weak build still clears content fast).

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You're simply focusing on the nerfs and ignoring the huge buffs.

And youre trying to make it looks like the main intention of the patch was to make other builds powerful. If that was the case they wouldnt have to nerf the already strong ones in the first place, now would they?

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What popular build has gotten nerfed beyond recognition that isn't cleave/spark

LA got ripped apart
FP got ripped apart
Spark got ripped apart
Dual totems in general got wiped completely
Discharge got ripped apart
Elemenetal Hit in OB got ripped apart
LS got ripped apart

And dont bring up the fact that they might be decent again because it has literally no meaning to the point. They were destroyed for meta reasons, it doesnt fucking matter if they are decent again months later. The overall intention of the patch was to butcher the builds.

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nynyny wrote:

Personally I dont even feel like strong builds are a problem. You play this game to be powerful and unlike in most titles its a pretty tough road until you finally achieve that point. ARPG are supposed to make you feel strong and PoE does the exact opposite for at least the first 80-85 levels. After a certain point youre finally as strong as you always wanted to be, at which point most people dont even want to play anymore.

If a person invests hundreds a exalted and hours of his time into making a completely broken build then I honestly dont see a problem with that. I never did, and I never will. The main reason is that you dont have a reason to play the build since 4 month leagues arent races, and in most races you cant run proper builds since you spend skillpoints according to what you find.

Being powerful is the goal many want to achieve, so why constantly cut off their legs when they finally arrived at their destination? Your gaming experience isnt really influenced by it at all. The only thing it does is make the items you dont want way more expensive. It feels like the main focus of balancing in this game isnt to improve your own situation but to fuck over others. It has always been the main intention and I doubt that it will ever change. Which is somewhat sad if you ask me.

The main point of balance is balance. Balance in a game is essential. Imagine chess where one player starts without the queen. The question is if the other player gets a queen or yours must be removed too. In PoE this is easy to answer: Low-life builds are all together hopelessly overpowered. If we asked to make everything in endgame as overpowered as low-life builds the game would be completely pointless to play. Therefore ppl legitimately ask for nerfs of the low-life mechanic. Shavs does not need a nerf, it anyway just would go legacy and nothing changed.

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Oh and before you mention that having a super expensive choice is fine, realize it's that expensive because it's so powerful.

Indeed. Now try a 100% mirrored item regular life/melee build. It exceeds low-life builds in costs by far because it probably needs less cheap uniques and more mirrored BIS items and what does it do? It just sucks. Because the only good thing in PoE is ranged+aoe+low-life. While Low-life necessarily needs to get nerfed, of course regular life builds could use some buffs tho.

But kasub it is rather senseless to discuss with ny I in this matter I what what I think. He is probably here to promote, legimitate and justify these heavy imbalances in PoE for him and his friends because he is probably sitting on 10+ legacy shavs in any leagues and doesnt want them to fall in price.

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LSN wrote:

The main point of balance is balance. Balance in a game is essential. Imagine chess where one player starts without the queen. The question is if the other player gets a queen or yours must be removed too. In PoE this is easy to answer: Low-life builds are all together hopelessly overpowered. If we asked to make everything in endgame as overpowered as low-life builds the game would be completely pointless to play. Therefore ppl legitimately ask for nerfs of the low-life mechanic. Shavs does not need a nerf, it anyway just would go legacy and nothing changed.

Unbelievable. This has to be some elaborate ruse. Another joker who compares a gear grinder to a competitive game and thinks that the proper importance of balance is comparable in any way.

Youre not playing against anyone in this game. Youre not competiting with anyone. So him clearing shit faster with an endgame build (that you also have access to if you would want to play it) has no god damn meaning. Unless you start to run CoE/ST in 4 hour races.

PoE is actually a highly competitive action rpg even outside races. Same way WoW pve is competitive.

Balance is also important to keep the game enjoyable. Variety by having many toptier builds is how that's done.