Ways to balance low-life shavronnes builds and daggerers/wanders

You were top 50, great thing. Doesn't give you much of an impression of how low-life builds play out tho. Therefore you can't judge.

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This wasnt true in OS or NE, and certainly isnt true now. People were always able to sustain high level maps if they invested enough time.

Doesn't hit the mark at all. Its not about time but about currency. Nowadays you simply buy maps. Why do you even think that I want to play maps alone? I wont ever play maps alone as it is boring.

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So youre complaining about min maxing then? Well, then better get ready, because you will complain about the same shit in 2 months again. Perfect balance is impossible, meaning that there always be something that is the best and thats usually what everybody plays. Maybe its going to be Frenzy, and maybe its just going to be better by 10%, but that doesnt change the fact that you will chasing them through the maps again, and that everybody will play it.

Random talking.

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I simply didnt bother playing Invasion because I lacked time. That doesnt mean that the situation youre in is any different to the situation people were in in OS/NE/HC or ever.

Ofc it doesnt mean anything for this game that you lacked the time for something and so on.

I wonder how powerful builds need to be before you care about balance. I love how you compare lowlife CoE builds to other builds that don't even have 1/10th its strength.

Just what is your point? Balance is to make an enjoyable game, no one is out to get anyone else. Read the topic and realize people who already use these builds are the top complainers.

If the devs suddenly decided to buff this build I'm sure you'll be all for it. When did this mindset of buffs and an easier game became a positive thing.

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Wubbietail wrote:

I wonder how powerful builds need to be before you care about balance.

I already asked him this. He said never. According to him, it's 100% fine if builds can press just 1 button and kill the entire map with that 1 button press.

This is you can be pretty sure he's simply a troll, and not really worth your time.

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You were top 50, great thing. Doesn't give you much of an impression of how low-life builds play out tho. Therefore you can't judge.

But I can because I oneshot packs myself, or chased people who did so with Discharge who one shot entire screens.

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Doesn't hit the mark at all. Its not about time but about currency. Nowadays you simply buy maps. Why do you even think that I want to play maps alone? I wont ever play maps alone as it is boring.

Time unfortunately for you equals currency. You need to spend way less money on maps nowadays than you had to a couple months ago. Meaning: sustaining them nowadays is ever easier. We didnt farm the maps ourselves, be bought a shit ton of them as well. But the funny thing is that, if you play properly, you end up having the money to do tht.

You have enough butthurt people in here who apparently despise CoE/ST, how come you cant find them ingame and run groups that exclusively consist of people who play other builds? You dont need the best build in the game to clear something, you need it to clear it as fast as possible. Unfortunately for you, as I already said, this will always be the case. You can nerf this build, the next patch wont be any different.

I know that because people kept telling me that LLRF FP doesnt work (especially in NE after the RF nerf) and then they kept chasing me through maps because I one shot the pack before the MF Sporker was even able to put down his totem. People will always find a way.

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Ofc it doesnt mean anything for this game that you lacked the time for something and so on.

It doesnt mean anything because if this build doesnt one shot shit in the next patch its going to be something else. You simply dont seem to be capable of understanding it.

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Just what is your point? Balance is to make an enjoyable game, no one is out to get anyone else. Read the topic and realize people who already use these builds are the top complainers.

You know what the stunning thing about Feedback forums is? That they consist (to 90%+) of complaints. Do you think a person who happily farms maps with that build right now is on the forums, posting about how much he loves it? No, hes ingame playing. But people who are pissed obviously sit on the forums and bitch. There certainly are some exceptions. Just because you have a certain amout of people in here who complain doesnt mean that there arent 50times that amount who are fine with it.

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If the devs suddenly decided to buff this build I'm sure you'll be all for it. When this mindset of buffs and an easier game became a positive thing.

First of all, I dont see a reason in buffing something unless its weak. And if its already strong buffing it would be redudant since their main objective with nerfs and buffs is to scramble the meta.

Second: I play games for the challenge. That why 95% of the game I touch are competitive titles. That doesnt change the fact that I am not going to tell people how to play their game. Someone wants easy loot and burn through content? Be my guest, play a IWINBUTTON build. Him doing so makes my life easier and I am anything but forced to play the same shit if I dislike it. Just because other people choose to take the easy route doesnt mean I have to as well. Neither do you. But you choose to do so anyway (or bitch about others doing, pick your poison).

Ny, low life has been the end all be all since low life became a sustainable thing. This is a pure fact, and nothing has changed. Doesn't matter if it's low life spells, attacks, totems, w/e. The main culprit is, and always has been, low life mechanics being a sustainable mechanic. Which it never should have been.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

Ny, low life has been the end all be all since low life became a sustainable thing. This is a pure fact, and nothing has changed. Doesn't matter if it's low life spells, attacks, totems, w/e. The main culprit is, and always has been, low life mechanics being a sustainable mechanic. Which it never should have been.

But that is something I doubt by now. If this would have been the goal they could have simply nerfed it even harder back then, making it ignore resistances or something.

The second they added the ES burn they should have realized that all it takes is an aura and a Ruby flask to completely ignore that aspect of the spell. I doubt that they know this little about their own game.

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Time unfortunately for you equals currency. You need to spend way less money on maps nowadays than you had to a couple months ago. Meaning: sustaining them nowadays is ever easier. We didnt farm the maps ourselves, be bought a shit ton of them as well. But the funny thing is that, if you play properly, you end up having the money to do tht.

What are you even talking about? This thread is about how to balance low-life because it seriously needs a fix. I play this game since the start of open beta and for the very most of this time in the high levels and I don't need any explanations from you about time, currency and sustaining maps.

Go in gameplay help forums and spread your wise words there.

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LSN wrote:

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Time unfortunately for you equals currency. You need to spend way less money on maps nowadays than you had to a couple months ago. Meaning: sustaining them nowadays is ever easier. We didnt farm the maps ourselves, be bought a shit ton of them as well. But the funny thing is that, if you play properly, you end up having the money to do tht.

What are you even talking about? This thread is about how to balance low-life because it seriously needs a fix. I play this game since the start of open beta and for the very most of this time in the high levels and I don't need any explanations from you about time, currency and sustaining maps.

Go in gameplay help forums and spread your wise words there.

Well you apparently do because, even with all your experience youre still not capable of sustaining high level maps.

Besides, why are you telling me to leave? You innitiated the discussion about yourself being butthurt about other people clearing stuff too fast while saying that you dont even want to not play with them because you want to clear the map as quick as possible.

Solving your problem is simple. Doesnt even need a patch for that.

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nynyny wrote:

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SL4Y3R wrote:

Ny, low life has been the end all be all since low life became a sustainable thing. This is a pure fact, and nothing has changed. Doesn't matter if it's low life spells, attacks, totems, w/e. The main culprit is, and always has been, low life mechanics being a sustainable mechanic. Which it never should have been.

But that is something I doubt by now. If this would have been the goal they could have simply nerfed it even harder back then, making it ignore resistances or something.

The second they added the ES burn they should have realized that all it takes is an aura and a Ruby flask to completely ignore that aspect of the spell. I doubt that they know this little about their own game.

It was a personal opinion that it should have never entered into a sustainable mechanic. Back during CB, it was *impossible* to sustain it. And it was balanced. They even made a build of the week around this niche build. Showing how even "junk" uniques had a purpose.

Sure took a hard left didn't they

Arguing about what the problem is doesn't really help and is not really constructive.

I've been posting till page 11 and now when I'm reading some post I can't figure out if somebody has a problem, with what exactly and what his suggestions are.

Fortunately I never play low life builds, not Shavs or CoE and I don't like ST. I would be fine with a change to Shavs and CoE and are willing to believe the complains from the people who are using this build themselves.

I think that Shavs in combination with CoE out of this build's context is not necessarily overpowered. They provide a lot of ES and the spell damage that applies to attacks but what makes this build overpowered is the total package.

The build has easy access to aura nodes but most of all it has access to daggers by using ST. Throwing daggers allows it to attack fast, with high physical to leech with CoE and crit applying elemental status effects supported by auras that are supported by lots of mana (and snapshotting atm).

So whether or not you think Shavs and CoE are OP even if you are using those yourselves, I would still say that the design flaw of ST is most to blame for the disbalance of this build.

Suggestion: Redesign ST the way Power Siphon and bow skills are designed and make them work for example only with throwing weapons and maybe fine tune the other aspects of the build.

BTW and maybe off topic: Redesigning ST might also mean that more work needs to be done on melee ;)