"If PoE increased droprates, people would instantly leave the game"

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xXx_EliteHardcorePro_xXx wrote:

Diablo is drowning in botted/duped Enigmas (they are cheaper than a single chaos orb on 3rd party websites) yet people still play d2 everyday

And people don't play PoE everyday, I totally get your point.

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K0nqueror wrote:

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CycloneJack wrote:

In PoE, every character I have made hits a gear wall at the end of Cruel. It seems that I can find the gear, but never get the sockets, or I can find the sockets, but the gear rolls are horrible. I've spent stacks of Orbs on rerolls, when throwing them on the ground would have been more productive. Let's not even start on the topic of finding build-enabling uniques, something I gave up months ago.

Uh, what builds are you playing? I occasionally hit gear walls...

Can we kill this strawman once and for all? Yes, the game is essentially a series of gearchecks; if geared correctly for a specific set of enemies, game becomes trivial. No 'skill' needed. There, I said it.
I'll provide an example. Reave shadow in his late 60's, start of A3 merci. Chest had been the same for at least 10 levels, so it was in need of replacement, same with his claw. Don't get me started on the shield, which was the same he's had for like 20 levels, in other words since the end act of last difficulty. As you can see, being lvl 66-67 in the start of A3 merci, I was overleveled for the general areas. What to do? Farm catacombs of course! Only problem was freeze... Now this char, having some 65% cold res, Crystal skin, and 40% avoid freeze, got frozen in a second or 2 coming up on more than a few frost guards. I tried once where the first room had 6-7 + a necromancer... -10% exp. Tried again, got a little further, same BS happened.
So I raged a bit in chat; "&$€# game. #%&/ gearwall" Responses were the same "What gearwall?" "It's your build" "HUEHUEHUE". Which I found funny, seeing as this char generally was able to stay alive with equip 10 levels old, so in my eyes build was ok, although with room for improvement on stats I would need to get from gear (like +res, +ES etc). Anyway, the area I could farm to get gear was out of bounds if I kept dying. So I was hanging out looking at my stash, which really isn't impressive btw, contemplating whether I had to reroll or what. Then my eyes fell on a unique I had... Hrimnors Resolve. Now I had 105% avoid freeze, and I facerolled Catacombs for 3-4 levels, no skillz needed; I could literally have AFK'ed (nah, maybe not, I need to leech life ;-)). If I hadn't had that helmet, that char would have ended there.

Everytime I run into situations like these, I can look at my gear, and see where the problem is: Too little damage, too little armour, not enough res, and so on. Everytime it can be mitigated by getting to the next tier of items, with better rolls on whatever stats are needed. That is, in essence, how these kinds of games work, ARPG or RPG. Sometimes it's easy to overcome, sometimes you need a very specific stat to scale what is blocking progress. Good if you can get it, essentially ending the game if you can't. More often, what I'm fighting isn't mobs, but abysmal drops. Which, btw, I could somewhat mitigate if crafting were a viable option.


TL, DR: I needed gear to stay alive, once I had it, game was trivial.

That's what you call a gearwall kids. Hopefully you can grasp the concept now.

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jamjamsjammies wrote:

One of those areas, that could definitely be improved, is the trading system - relying on trading to get items is a bad idea if your trading system is embarrassingly basic.... I've seen guys selling stereos out of the back of anonymous vans who are more organized in their trading than this;...

I agree.
Somehow, the idea of an improved tradesystem seems to get (some of) the trade proponents into hysterics too.
Why is that?

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unsane69 wrote:

I agree.
Somehow, the idea of an improved tradesystem seems to get (some of) the trade proponents into hysterics too.
Why is that?

That may be because Chris doesn't want trading to include B/O. He wants players to interact more than "Online?", "yes", done deal. Chris seems to want some effort involved. A good thing, in my eyes.

The "trading people" want trading to be as easy as possible, while they go on and on about how skillfull trading is.

On the other hand: Updating the trade system will fix NADA, nix, nothing when it comes to gear checks/gear walls.

My experience so far is unique are fine - I have a whole sale thread full of them and doesnt even include my GG ones I am holding onto. Moreover with guaranteed drops from Atziri which I already got a GG scepter and belt from it's wonderful. The guys carried me and dropped items at my feet but I provided vaal fragments. ez pz good drops.


Map drops are fine. I have had success in obtaining successively higher map drops appropriate to my level -9.

Rare drops are fine. I made mid maps solo self found HC with my first toon. Granted hit a big road block and had terrible DPS. But doable.

However there are some serious issues with mats.

If you ever want to craft a GG item you never will with current drop rates. I read that it took a guy 73 exalts to make his GG max life, max ES, max tri res boots. You'd have to play a lifetime (or more) to ever see 73 exalts. Don't y'all think say after 100 hrs game time you should be able to make a single GG item? Or 1000 hours for a full kit on a single character? If not How many hours? Surely has to less less than infinity which is now. I have way over 100 hrs more like 300 some have thousands. I've seen 5 exalts in three toons over 70 hardly enough to even get started making a single item. And I'm very lucky according to clan mates. Buff crafting mats. That goes for fuses, eternal, and exalted orbs to actually make something decent after such time invested.

Instead what happens is like my clan mates told me day one - never craft save mats and trade and flip for what you want. Is this what GGG has in mind?

Thats fine I know how to AH well diablo 3 trained me well. I was GG in three toons and pulled out $2500 cash out of Diablo 3 before I came here. However I think most ppl want to actually play game and get GG and not trade sim to be GG.

I made 74 in HC. She died and i delete her. Whats the point of saving a dead HC toon? derp

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phrazz wrote:

On the other hand: Updating the trade system will fix NADA, nix, nothing when it comes to gear checks/gear walls.

I agree. I was responding to 2 different posts, since I haven't posted in a while... Even though, I play mostly self found for several reasons. But I am not so adverse to trading per se, I'm just put off by a system that requires me to 1. Put up with an ingame system that reeks 1998 or 2. Go to a third party site to browse items for trade. I'm put off by the prices too, but that's an entirely different issue :D

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Aim_Deep wrote:

My experience so far is unique are fine - I have a whole sale thread full of them and doesnt even include my GG ones I am holding onto. Moreover with guaranteed drops from Atziri which I already got a GG scepter and belt from it's wonderful.


Map drops are fine. I have had success in obtaining successively higher map drops appropriate to my level -9.

Rare drops are fine. I made mid maps solo self found HC with my first toon. Granted hit a big road block and had terrible DPS. But doable.

However there are some serious issues with mats.
...

Instead what happens is like my clan mates told me day one - never craft save mats and trade and flip for what you want. Is this what GGG has in mind?

I'll make it short. Playing as I do, I'll never see Atziri, as in: I'll never have good enough gear to survive the encounter for very long. I'm fine with that, more or less.

I have no issue with unique droprates.

Rare drops are fine too, and is mostly what brings me through the game; however the layers of RNG can make it very hard to get a good rare for your specific char. Which brings me to:

Materials. Which are not intended to be used apparently. Then why have them?! Why not just set a gold standard currency? To combat RMT? That is a lost battle. I was amazed to see RMT ads at the gamepedia wiki (I usually have ad-block).
As I see it, the orb currency system is complex, and as it is, more suited for scamming noobs and flipping, since for a newcomer it is not transparent what is what. It isn't suited for using orbs as a material though, unless you engage in trading on a grand scale. Which again is hampered by a trading system that is, and I'll be nice, archaic and bothersome. It really is one of the places where the game seems unfinished, unpolished and, well... beta-like.
And I actually love this game. A new player who doesn't have the same relationship with it, how will he/she react?

exactly i always delete my dead hc chars - i only have some standards chars for stashing purpose or for moving some gear there.

i personally think you can run solo self found till mid 70s map wise (i did that) but with endgame 76+ maps its really hard. you need alot of currency for buying/rolling/chiseling and i always give up then... i simply dont have the time to play 100s of hours not do i play in teams who all have 10+ hours a day for playing a game.

to the topic: i dont think people would leave cause even if they triple the droprates they would be still very low. im fine with the droprates right now cause you actually never loose anything you have acquired (permadeath+permaloose) it will only be moved to another league.

im not sure if that works for all players - i dont want to reach lv100 or having a full low life wander to enjoy the game - but thats my way to play. i see that some might get a bit frustrated when they "think" they had to work harder for some gear then others. but well, thats rng based so why should i care about someone else being more lucky then i was. (state of the game now)

again thats only my opinion and im sure others will have good arguments for theirs...at the end its just a game.

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unsane69 wrote:

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phrazz wrote:

On the other hand: Updating the trade system will fix NADA, nix, nothing when it comes to gear checks/gear walls.

I agree. I was responding to 2 different posts, since I haven't posted in a while... Even though, I play mostly self found for several reasons. But I am not so adverse to trading per se, I'm just put off by a system that requires me to 1. Put up with an ingame system that reeks 1998 or 2. Go to a third party site to browse items for trade. I'm put off by the prices too, but that's an entirely different issue :D

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Aim_Deep wrote:

My experience so far is unique are fine - I have a whole sale thread full of them and doesnt even include my GG ones I am holding onto. Moreover with guaranteed drops from Atziri which I already got a GG scepter and belt from it's wonderful.


Map drops are fine. I have had success in obtaining successively higher map drops appropriate to my level -9.

Rare drops are fine. I made mid maps solo self found HC with my first toon. Granted hit a big road block and had terrible DPS. But doable.

However there are some serious issues with mats.
...

Instead what happens is like my clan mates told me day one - never craft save mats and trade and flip for what you want. Is this what GGG has in mind?

I'll make it short. Playing as I do, I'll never see Atziri, as in: I'll never have good enough gear to survive the encounter for very long. I'm fine with that, more or less.

I have no issue with unique droprates.

Rare drops are fine too, and is mostly what brings me through the game; however the layers of RNG can make it very hard to get a good rare for your specific char. Which brings me to:

Materials. Which are not intended to be used apparently. Then why have them?! Why not just set a gold standard currency? To combat RMT? That is a lost battle. I was amazed to see RMT ads at the gamepedia wiki (I usually have ad-block).
As I see it, the orb currency system is complex, and as it is, more suited for scamming noobs and flipping, since for a newcomer it is not transparent what is what. It isn't suited for using orbs as a material though, unless you engage in trading on a grand scale. Which again is hampered by a trading system that is, and I'll be nice, archaic and bothersome. It really is one of the places where the game seems unfinished, unpolished and, well... beta-like.
And I actually love this game. A new player who doesn't have the same relationship with it, how will he/she react?

Completly agree. Oh and i clarified I didnt beat atziri solo so far only managed to kill her minions before my portals ran out solo. My mates carried me twices and droped those GG items at my feet since drops are guaranteed. So look out for that help. In a week or so I'll be able to do her for u if you got mats.

And lol @ "Materials. Which are not intended to be used apparently." so very true.

A new player is screwed. I was lucky that a lot of my friends from d3 invited me here. made me part of clan gave me sweet goodies and gems in guild box. tutor me. basically like not starting from scrath like a true noob would. This game is very uninviting for them. My first suggestion is join a guild. Second would be prepare to play trade sim.

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Alea wrote:

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Aim_Deep wrote:

I made 74 in HC. She died and i delete her. Whats the point of saving a dead HC toon? derp

sry, but how can you say it's fine for HC you never reached more than level 74 in there ?
you means it's fine if lvl <74 maybe ?
at lvl 74 you plenty test map drop rate, rare items rate, and unique items rate in invasion ? :p

i stop disturbing you sry :D

I said it was fine to mid level maps. After that no. Better trade to reach end game and that goes for all leagues but more so for HC which is unforgiving to gearing mistakes. Mats is the real problem too as I said. You can't self find your way past mid mapping and You can't craft your way up either. No bother just please read post entirely next time. I already said what I just did again.

Now look. Ive been playing PoE on and off since i got into the beta in 2011. When I am playing, its not casual. I play more than 6 hours a day. The only thing that keeps me from being totally non-casual is that I take breaks to play other games from time to time.

However I have still put hundreds of hours into this game. There are i think a couple hundred uniques in the game by now, and frankly I doubt if I've found a quarter of them. The best item I have ever found was the Bringer of Rain. Most stuff I find is low level, and not very good.

Ive found Quill Rain a dozen times. Ive lost track of how many times ive found Sadima's touch or other uniques like it. Fifty crown of thorns anyone?

To be blunt it gets old after a while, finding the same things over and over while knowing there are other, cooler things out there.

"Well why don't you just trade for what you need?" you might ask. The problem is that common uniques are worth very little, while the more rare ones are worth insane amounts of currency by comparison. I would have to do a lot of trading, perhaps weeks worth, in order to work my way up to the amount I needed to get the one piece of gear I'm thinking of. Thats quite a lot of effort to put into getting the gear I need for a build I'm not sure will be very good.

My only other choice is to find something super rare that I don't need and trade it for the currency to get the thing I want.

The overall point here is that its pretty damn difficult to get even the 2nd tier uniques that you can base builds around. This change has been a long time coming and I support it because even people who are more than casual are being shut out.