3 Years and still no trade system....

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Aixius wrote:

In the meantime, it has never been easier to find gear (strongboxes, tormented spirits, etc.), skills (many powerful skills moved to A4 normal instead of A3 Merciless, many skills purchasable from NPCs on the cheap, etc.), and we can even modify our gear through the Masters. We also have poe.trade in lieu of an official trading platform.

For all of the above reasons, if you're "pissed" about the state of this game then you haven't been paying attention.

Basically, what you are saying is "it was even worse in the past, right now it's just less bad". You're just brushing away the problem.

If anyone here also plays LoL, people will know exactly what will happen when basic features get constantly pushed back. The community originally sided with riot for 3 years thinking it'll come eventually. Now it's completely different. If you think the negative criticism is bad now, just wait another year or 2.

The current trade system is fine. The only thing that GGG should do, is replacing the external services with services of their own. Anyone asking for efficient trading does not realize the impact that this would have. Essentially it would make all the stuff most players ever find worthless. Ironically it would hurt those the most that ask for efficient trading.

D3 did that and it turned out really, really bad. And yes, D3 had many more problems but the impact on the economy of PoE will be the same as in D3. This is supply/demand 101.

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jebroni wrote:

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Aixius wrote:

In the meantime, it has never been easier to find gear (strongboxes, tormented spirits, etc.), skills (many powerful skills moved to A4 normal instead of A3 Merciless, many skills purchasable from NPCs on the cheap, etc.), and we can even modify our gear through the Masters. We also have poe.trade in lieu of an official trading platform.

For all of the above reasons, if you're "pissed" about the state of this game then you haven't been paying attention.

Basically, what you are saying is "it was even worse in the past, right now it's just less bad". You're just brushing away the problem.

If anyone here also plays LoL, people will know exactly what will happen when basic features get constantly pushed back. The community originally sided with riot for 3 years thinking it'll come eventually. Now it's completely different. If you think the negative criticism is bad now, just wait another year or 2.

Actually no, the first part of my comment (that you cropped out) talked about so-called "unfixable" problems like desync/netcode, problems which I don't believe GGG ever promised to fix. GGG has, however, discussed a trading system in the works. Considering they fixed other major problems, what reason do you have to believe trading won't get some love?

What Riot has done with LoL has no significance when discussing GGG and PoE.

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Aixius wrote:

Actually no, the first part of my comment (that you cropped out) talked about so-called "unfixable" problems like desync/netcode, problems which I don't believe GGG ever promised to fix. GGG has, however, discussed a trading system in the works. Considering they fixed other major problems, what reason do you have to believe trading won't get some love?

What Riot has done with LoL has no significance when discussing GGG and PoE.

The first part of your post was cropped out because it was not related to the trading system. Again you can choose to ignore past examples if you want, but companies who fix a few big issues and fail to deliver a major gap in their game is not rare. I just don't want people to set themselves up for disappointment when a shocking revelation comes by 5 years later and things don't come as expected.

Also desync was not fixed. It was imporoved but lag becomes a bigger factor now. If anything it regressed more towards the traditional lag based system. It was a half undo.

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jebroni wrote:

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Aixius wrote:

Actually no, the first part of my comment (that you cropped out) talked about so-called "unfixable" problems like desync/netcode, problems which I don't believe GGG ever promised to fix. GGG has, however, discussed a trading system in the works. Considering they fixed other major problems, what reason do you have to believe trading won't get some love?

What Riot has done with LoL has no significance when discussing GGG and PoE.

The first part of your post was cropped out because it was not related to the trading system. Again you can choose to ignore past examples if you want, but companies who fix a few big issues and fail to deliver a major gap in their game is not rare. I just don't want people to set themselves up for disappointment when a shocking revelation comes by 5 years later and things don't come as expected.

Also desync was not fixed. It was imporoved but lag becomes a bigger factor now. If anything it regressed more towards the traditional lag based system. It was a half undo.

"Regressed towards a traditional lag based system"? What are you even talking about? How exactly would you expect any online game to work? If your ping is decent you have a good experience, just like any server-based FPS or RTS; they also left the old predictive mode in for those with garbage connections.


GGG has told us in the past that a trading system is in the works. It's clearly been pushed back for one reason or another. They do, however, have a reputation for relentlessly updating and improving PoE. A trading "system" will not be a straight auction house and will require a design that doesn't completely upset the player loot hunt/adventure experience. GGG's caution in implementing an official system is warranted; as we have seen with D3, striking the right balance between player convenience and encouraging the loot hunt is extremely important - and it can have dire consequences if you get it wrong.

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Aixius wrote:

"Regressed towards a traditional lag based system"? What are you even talking about? How exactly would you expect any online game to work? If your ping is decent you have a good experience, just like any server-based FPS or RTS; they also left the old predictive mode in for those with garbage connections.

You completely oversimplified this part. PoE is not like any rts/fps. Most other games is multiple people playing in 1 instance. PoE is a single player in 1 instance. The old mode's purpose was to bypass lag using advanced algorithms, this was possible because of that single player single instance playmode. So seeing lag ingame is a regression from a very advanced form of network communication/management. People don't complain about it anymore because GGG planted servers in every other timezone, but that does not change my belief that it most likely may have been a regression in this matter.

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Aixius wrote:

GGG has told us in the past that a trading system is in the works. It's clearly been pushed back for one reason or another. They do, however, have a reputation for relentlessly updating and improving PoE. A trading "system" will not be a straight auction house and will require a design that doesn't completely upset the player loot hunt/adventure experience. GGG's caution in implementing an official system is warranted; as we have seen with D3, striking the right balance between player convenience and encouraging the loot hunt is extremely important - and it can have dire consequences if you get it wrong.

This sounds very familiar. Also D3 had so many problems that it's so hard to give an apple:apple comparison without a very indepth analysis that probably no one ever would care to put up.

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jebroni wrote:

You completely oversimplified this part. PoE is not like any rts/fps. Most other games is multiple people playing in 1 instance. PoE is a single player in 1 instance. The old mode's purpose was to bypass lag using advanced algorithms, this was possible because of that single player single instance playmode. So seeing lag ingame is a regression from a very advanced form of network communication/management. People don't complain about it anymore because GGG planted servers in every other timezone, but that does not change my belief that it most likely may have been a regression in this matter.

So you must be hinting that the new system is in fact superior, considering that people don't complain about it anymore. What you believe doesn't really mean anything: what is the actual result? My results, at an average of 40 ping, are flawless gameplay on lockstep, whereas before lockstep there was lots of desync. How could I possibly support the notion that any potential connection lag is a 'regression'? I can't.

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jebroni wrote:

This sounds very familiar. Also D3 had so many problems that it's so hard to give an apple:apple comparison without a very indepth analysis that probably no one ever would care to put up.

D3 has also implemented two polar opposite trading solutions during its time, which makes it a decent example to study: the wild west Auction House/RMAH solution during vanilla, and now the almost completely self-found solution during RoS. Both have their appeals but also affect gameplay (and design) in different ways. If anyone thinks GGG will ever drop a D3-style Auction House into the middle of PoE then they should also prepare for script-running day traders to quickly control the entire thing. Any sort of centralized and automated trading system would be a complete disaster for PoE; it's simply too easy for people to take advantage of.

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Aixius wrote:

So you must be hinting that the new system is in fact superior, considering that people don't complain about it anymore. What you believe doesn't really mean anything: what is the actual result? My results, at an average of 40 ping, are flawless gameplay on lockstep, whereas before lockstep there was lots of desync. How could I possibly support the notion that any potential connection lag is a 'regression'? I can't.

Bandaid solutions are not progression. They work for the most part. But they are not progression. Just because things work better for you doesn't mean it works better for the entire audience. 2.0 basically substituted desync with a mix of desync+lag, or you can choose to go back to desync. This impacts people who aren't near any of the servers. The goal was to optimize against both lag AND desync to the best conditions and that includes hardware. GGG in that sense just bit the bullet and just went for the next best thing.

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Aixius wrote:

D3 has also implemented two polar opposite trading solutions during its time, which makes it a decent example to study: the wild west Auction House/RMAH solution during vanilla, and now the almost completely self-found solution during RoS. Both have their appeals but also affect gameplay (and design) in different ways. If anyone thinks GGG will ever drop a D3-style Auction House into the middle of PoE then they should also prepare for script-running day traders to quickly control the entire thing. Any sort of centralized and automated trading system would be a complete disaster for PoE; it's simply too easy for people to take advantage of.

If you're seriously worried about scripters then I have no idea how you could possibly support half the stuff in this game or tolerate any other multiplayer rpg game. Scripters are not what ruins games, perhaps a lackluster patrol on scripters - maybe.

Actually the missing offline trading is the #1 reason that i almost haven't played Awakening (including Beta, although i had access). I mean, i love to play the game, but i just can't take the thought to have a mediocre character because i'll never be able to get the items i want, just because there's no offline trading. I could afford a little time to play, but most of the time would go into trading, and i just don't want to do that.

I don't blame GGG, though, it's just that i have certain expectations because i had pretty strong characters before, and i wouldn't want to play something mediocre that could be easily achieved with little trading effort. I want a strong character, and when you have the time, you can have a pretty strong character even with not too much currency - but you need the time to buy the right items at the right point. But again, that's my personal problem, although offline trading would still be nice.

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jebroni wrote:

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Aixius wrote:

D3 has also implemented two polar opposite trading solutions during its time, which makes it a decent example to study: the wild west Auction House/RMAH solution during vanilla, and now the almost completely self-found solution during RoS. Both have their appeals but also affect gameplay (and design) in different ways. If anyone thinks GGG will ever drop a D3-style Auction House into the middle of PoE then they should also prepare for script-running day traders to quickly control the entire thing. Any sort of centralized and automated trading system would be a complete disaster for PoE; it's simply too easy for people to take advantage of.

If you're seriously worried about scripters then I have no idea how you could possibly support half the stuff in this game or tolerate any other multiplayer rpg game. Scripters are not what ruins games, perhaps a lackluster patrol on scripters - maybe.

Auction House script users aren't the same as using a script while you play PoE or any other game. When you have a centralized database of items code-savvy people can run trading bots to buy up items automatically, relist, etc.

Here's a pretty well-known story for what I'm talking about: http://diablo3story.blogspot.ca/2014/07/a-diablo-3-story.html