3 Years and still no trade system....

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Aixius wrote:

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jebroni wrote:

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Aixius wrote:

D3 has also implemented two polar opposite trading solutions during its time, which makes it a decent example to study: the wild west Auction House/RMAH solution during vanilla, and now the almost completely self-found solution during RoS. Both have their appeals but also affect gameplay (and design) in different ways. If anyone thinks GGG will ever drop a D3-style Auction House into the middle of PoE then they should also prepare for script-running day traders to quickly control the entire thing. Any sort of centralized and automated trading system would be a complete disaster for PoE; it's simply too easy for people to take advantage of.

If you're seriously worried about scripters then I have no idea how you could possibly support half the stuff in this game or tolerate any other multiplayer rpg game. Scripters are not what ruins games, perhaps a lackluster patrol on scripters - maybe.

Auction House script users aren't the same as using a script while you play PoE or any other game. When you have a centralized database of items code-savvy people can run trading bots to buy up items automatically, relist, etc.

Here's a pretty well-known story for what I'm talking about: http://diablo3story.blogspot.ca/2014/07/a-diablo-3-story.html

This was blizzard's dumb implementation of a real-money-auction house & even when they found out, that they fucked up, they did nothing about it (except for closing it down later on).
The auction house in WoW (without real money) is working very good, yes there are "professionals", but in general it is working. It offers a possibility for casual gamers to offer their stuff "easily" to everyone. While hardcoregamers can make a dime, by sniping underprized things and sell them expensive. So everyone wins.

In PoE casual gamers with not-so-much-time are fucked and hardcore-gamers or shops are earning 100%. There is a reason that popular trading sites are also offering prices in $ (poeex.info for example). So shady people are earning money with poe & GGG is earning shit with this blackmarket. So as a result: shady people are earning $$$, GGG earns nothing for this (while they should), casual gamers have a hard time offering their stuff / buying stuff, hardcore gamers who like to waste time in trade channels are loving it. I do have the feeling, that the majority is loosing with the current system.

Furthermore "script-users" in PoE are creating some kind of auction house. People using scripts scanning the forums & scanning their items, do have a significant advantage and in fact created some kind of external auction house. GGG should align all trading within their very own auction / trading house system, so that everyone gets access to the system (or better: that everyone can easily offer their stuff to everyone), except for those with scripts.

Soon..

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Aixius wrote:

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jebroni wrote:

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Aixius wrote:

D3 has also implemented two polar opposite trading solutions during its time, which makes it a decent example to study: the wild west Auction House/RMAH solution during vanilla, and now the almost completely self-found solution during RoS. Both have their appeals but also affect gameplay (and design) in different ways. If anyone thinks GGG will ever drop a D3-style Auction House into the middle of PoE then they should also prepare for script-running day traders to quickly control the entire thing. Any sort of centralized and automated trading system would be a complete disaster for PoE; it's simply too easy for people to take advantage of.

If you're seriously worried about scripters then I have no idea how you could possibly support half the stuff in this game or tolerate any other multiplayer rpg game. Scripters are not what ruins games, perhaps a lackluster patrol on scripters - maybe.

Auction House script users aren't the same as using a script while you play PoE or any other game. When you have a centralized database of items code-savvy people can run trading bots to buy up items automatically, relist, etc.

Here's a pretty well-known story for what I'm talking about: http://diablo3story.blogspot.ca/2014/07/a-diablo-3-story.html

D3 is suck on that, but it doesn't mean that PoE will fail too. Now, script-users can still do the trick to search for the underpriced item, in a external way. Without a centralized auction house, the game will only be more unfair. It's like the farmers who are being forced prices down in true life as there isn't a centralized place to know the price. Without a auction house, people are still earning money with PoE. I really agree what wahnvorstellung said that why GGG lets the others share the cake. They should either stop it, or do it by themselves.
If you believe the theory, there are only two ways to make the price fair. The first one is letting the system to set a fix price for every single type of stuff. No one can cheat on that. But it's so impractical. So, we should use the next one, boosting the freedom of market. Why don't we follow the Law of One Price to set up a centralized place. Let all the market information be accessed freely and timely at one and only one place. That place can be just a trading system without auction (all fixed price) if you really think that PoE will follow the failure of D3.

why GGG lets the others share the cake. They should either stop it, or do it by themselves.


realisticaly, ther is only one answer to this ... or not?

regards

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WillisTheWillis wrote:

D3 is suck on that, but it doesn't mean that PoE will fail too. Now, script-users can still do the trick to search for the underpriced item, in a external way. Without a centralized auction house, the game will only be more unfair. It's like the farmers who are being forced prices down in true life as there isn't a centralized place to know the price. Without a auction house, people are still earning money with PoE. I really agree what wahnvorstellung said that why GGG lets the others share the cake. They should either stop it, or do it by themselves.
If you believe the theory, there are only two ways to make the price fair. The first one is letting the system to set a fix price for every single type of stuff. No one can cheat on that. But it's so impractical. So, we should use the next one, boosting the freedom of market. Why don't we follow the Law of One Price to set up a centralized place. Let all the market information be accessed freely and timely at one and only one place. That place can be just a trading system without auction (all fixed price) if you really think that PoE will follow the failure of D3.

As long as there is no "buy it now" automated function where you click a button, the transaction is completed, and the item is transferred to your inventory then sure.

I believe there should always be some sort of player to player interaction when trading, with the ultimate goal being to avoid enabling any scenarios where a single player can simply type in a set of parameters and easily buy up all the items of a certain type. The example of WoW's AH is different because that AH is accessed from within the game world, not from an external environment like a phone app, web browser, etc.

This should really be an emphasis for the remainder of 2015. Would make a great Xmas patch.

Coding a real trading system is too hard and cost money... just let them players settle and use 3rd party software and just pray they don't get hacked.

IMO, its like this, everything in this game takes investment. Your character tree, your gear, your map pool. You have to work at it, plan for it. Trading isnt much different to become a power player. You have to work at it, create your forum thread, keep it updated, be on the ladder. Possibly live in trade chat. Everything in this game that doesnt take 'investment' has been nerfed into the floor boards, I dont think easing the trading process fits into the common theme. Trading is very strong, but it takes some effort, seems like it fits. Maybe they bring the system in house, but I dont see where easy access to trading fits the mold.

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FadeXF wrote:

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Aixius wrote:

As long as there is no "buy it now" automated function where you click a button, the transaction is completed, and the item is transferred to your inventory then sure.

I believe there should always be some sort of player to player interaction when trading, with the ultimate goal being to avoid enabling any scenarios where a single player can simply type in a set of parameters and easily buy up all the items of a certain type. The example of WoW's AH is different because that AH is accessed from within the game world, not from an external environment like a phone app, web browser, etc.

Not possible to prevent - even right now if someone wants to they can buy every item with certain stats that they want. The only difference if you have a system in the game that is easy to use, then more people will trade and use said system. So it actually would make it more difficult for someone to have a monopoly.

Right, but currently you can't do it with a bot. If there is a bot out there that scans poe.trade, contacts the sellers, then meets in-game to trade then by all means I'll bow out of this conversation, but I am not aware of such a thing.

For the record, I'm not anti-trade or any such nonsense (I played years of D2, which was the wild west as far as trading went). I just hope that any solution that is implemented is something that 1) doesn't affect how the gameplay/drop rates are designed, and 2) isn't easily gamed/cornered by code-savvy users. If that means I have to continue to use a search engine, wait for a seller to respond and then meet in-game to trade then so be it.

An ingame trading mechanic would do several good things and GGG had a very first attempt at their own system more or less ready. That was over a year ago and they said they wanted to rework ok...
A GGG approved version would obviously make trading easier which means more items on the market which means cheaper prices for everyone. That in return means we can all have faster and easier gear progression.