Forsaken Craft: You've sort of broken your game GGG

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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holocaustus wrote:

ITT we learn that only RMTs should be able to afford excellent gear.

right here in your very first line you prove you have no clue what you are talking about an invalidate everything you have to say, well done.

Evidently so. But thankfully here you are to clue me in and show me and everyone else the right and wrong ways to have fun in this game.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

then you obviously dont see very well, hence why you have the position on this you do.

No, this sentence prove me more like yuo are pretty pissed about all your invested time into high end game gear make you feel bad hence the position you have.

just for clarification not everyone is no-life 24/7/360 gamer. And if people going to master lvl 8 in 3 months fine let them but for the average player who have maybe 2-4 hours time a day which seem a lot to some people its a real goal for months and even then you still need a gigantic huge luck to alt a good weapon.

You should not compare apples with oranges mate.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

What I am is a player who actually has enough experience to see the bigger picture here. ~Its not about elitists getting but hurt, theyre laughing, theyre making more money than ever, this change seals their right to hold monopoly over gear in challenge leagues because they can craft shit better than anyone else can find and thanks to the master leveling they will get there first and the people who needed help, the casual scrubs will never get there in a 3 month window. This is about players who are too clueless to understand or too blinded by greed to admit this is broken and needs sorted for the sake of the game, got nothing to do with elitists, sry to burst your little bubble mate. You see your opportunity to have weapons that rival mirrored perfection for pathetic pocket change and yopu dont want some realist who actually cares about the game like me spoiling it for you by pointing out thats its retarded.

as someone who doesnt care about wealth of others i hardly can imagine i speak out of greed in fact i have similar rampage gear with my ranger the difference is it took me from league start to now to aquire it. Maybe because im not no-life gamer, maybe because i only played with a friend and hardly traded a thing, maybe because i dont participate in the tycoon game buy low sell high, maybe because i dont do dominus cull runs with full party because i think its boring?

who cares i had my fun and still have.

what you are asking sound more like you want a fix for your very own problems as when im allowed to speak for the average player have only benefits from the master system.

My position of a ordinary "scrub" is a pretty damn nice endgame goal which will take me probably 4-6 months+ to reach elreon lvl 8 and vagan and another 4 months before i luckily roll a tyrannical bow of flaring before i can regal it

I can see how it is hard for you to understand from a point from someone who have already everything

let me ask you im curious is the game still fun for you? as you keep telling us how not fun the game is with master crafting.

But you got that mirror gears so i really wonder why you odnt alrdy have quitted the game for so long if the game really got bored

but i highly doubt so.

Also next time when you try to prove a point try to look from average player's sight not just from yours, a fresh load of new players would do only good to this game while i think a lot of elitists could take a long break from the game and it would go unnoticed, also would make me happy to not read such elitist sounding stuff.

Ok first let me say thanks IlyaK, I appreciate your post is actually trying to discuss things rather than just saying "oh you are a trader trying to protect his wealth gtfo", I dunno if Im gonna disagre with some things uve said or whatever here but thanks for actually talking sense and being reasonable.

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IlyaK1986 wrote:

As someone who put down his tornado shot ranger after playing for a week and getting absolutely steamrolled by the Jungle Valley boss, let me tell you:

Yes, I do want a Dragon Hunger.

well Ive beat jungle valley boss a number of times with that tornado shot ranger setup I posted, even with double reflect. Just stick a life on hit gem in there and stay away from the big guy, abuse the trees in the corner etc. If you are not using a coil with an ondars evasion acrobatics spec, thats maybe where youve gone wrong.

Second, jungle valley with a binos is a joke, I can link you builds I have to absolutely obliterate jungle valley with a binos level dagger, you can just hammer that map with a 70-200 phys 1.4aps dagger no problem, doesnt even have to be a dagger, any 1 handed double strike build doing in the range of 16-20k dps. You dont need a hunger for it trust me, thats so overkill, like using a sledge hammer to open a monkey nut.

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IlyaK1986 wrote:

The issue isn't so much the dragon hunger, so much as getting to it (or something within spitting distance, such as a multimod crafted item built on top of a tyrannical or flaring prefix), as the fact that getting to that point in and of itself is a slog. However, there are people that are offering master crafting services, so as to circumvent GGG's forced grinding nonsense. Some charge a moderate fee, some give it away.

....

See, the problem isn't the master crafting abilities so much as the forced grind to get to those levels. Because when you say "you'll quit within 5 minutes of getting your Dragon Hunger", well, guess what? I quit long before that, because of all the forced grinding the game makes one do.

see, forced grinding... by grinding you mean playing the game, that is basically the game right? Grinding, thats the entire thing, if you dont want to grind why are you playing the game? What will you do when you get a dragon hunger? Grind with it? If not grind with it then what would you do exactly seeing as that is all there is to do in the game? The journey is the game, the destination is the end of the game, surely we are here for the journey? do you read the last page of a book first then throw it out?

Forced grinding, well, youre not forced, but if you want the absolute best items in the game you have to play the game to get them, the minute you got them theres nothing left to play for, to grind for, thats sort of my point. These items only exist as a carrot, the Binos level of dagger destroys the entire game, ubers and all, the only reason the potential for stuff above that exists is for a carrot to keep grinding, to give you something left to play for. you dont want to ever get that last thing, then the game is over. I dont see it as forced grinding nonsense, if you dont have to grind for something then what? I dont get it, have dragon hunger as a quest reward maybe for killing the bear in act2 merciless? No ones forcing you to pursue a weapon like that, you certainly dont need one to achieve anything in the game outside of having a thing for the sake of having it.

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IlyaK1986 wrote:

At the end of the day, developers should be honest with themselves--if they only have 50 hours of content in the game, then they only have 50 hours worth of content. Why force a grind on so many people, to turn what should be a fun ten hour experience into a two hundred hour slog?

because its fun? Why make a game where you cna have everything in 50 hours? Thats what diablo did and its a piece of shit. Ive played this game for what? 5000 hours? More? Im still having fun, whats the point in taking a game that can be played for that long and cutting it down to 50 just because some people cant get their head around the idea that if theres still something in the game you dont have after 5000 hours then you wont get it after 50? Why should u have everything? What do you want it for?

Theres nothing stopping you playing for 10 hours and saying ok im done. But for those of us that want to play for 10,000 hours there has to be something in the game that you cant get in 10 hours, as soon as they add that for us the 10 hour crew say "hey man thats bs, I want everything in the game in 10 hours wtf?!?!?!" thats so selfish and unrealistic, they made the 10 hour game for those people, why arnt they happy with it? Why do they have to have the 10,000 hour reward in the 10 hours? They got their game now they want to fuck our game for what? sheer ego greed? Thats bs man, allow the game to have longevity for those of us who want it, keep those egos in check and learn to live with it. I understand thats not what you were saying, Im not directing that comment at you, youre talking more abstract and what ifs, Im just directing that at the theoretical guy who wants it all in 10 hours, no offense meant.

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IlyaK1986 wrote:

Furthermore, if you're steamrolling everything with a Dragon Hunger, how about replacing some of that gear with gear with some IIR on it, and some of those skill gems as well? If you're steamrolling everything, why is it that you only have 5 orbs worth of currency, instead of re-gearing the character to overkill things a little less? Also, how the heck are you dealing with reflect? Don't you just one-shot yourself?

what am I going to find? another dragon hunger? what is going to drop that has any value to me in standard league? I have mf characters there, not that its much use. The chances of something dropping that would be an upgrade for me are close to infinitely small. That was my point earlier about farming normal piety, the sort of loot that drops in normal mode compared to a level 80 char with 20kdps is roughly as useless as the sort of loot that drops in lvl78 maps when you are wearing items like hunger with bis 6 link chests etc. Thats why I went self found in beyond, to actually find something worth something to me again.

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IlyaK1986 wrote:

Oh, and one other thing--a 6L 200 DPS Harbinger in five days?

HOW?

playing the game? Day 2 I had a 5 link ivory bow, started mapping, found the rats nest, found a rise of the phoenix i traded for a coil which I then 5 linked, day 3 i found a chin sol, 5 linked it, next day found that harbinger, took another day to 6 link it and get that crafted mod, found another coil, gave it to my guild leader in the end, I think I have a 3rd in my stash atm but the rolls are shit compared to the one Im using. Its just grinding mate, going at it 12+ hours a day non stop, thats what it says on the tin right? Grinding gears? thats what we do man. The random 6 linking was luck, the rest of it was just normal run of things, I dont feel like I was particularly lucky in that first week outside of the full link, I didnt find a single exalt or divine or any currency worth a damn. I think I found an eternal in the second week, only second one Ive ever found in many, many 1000s of hours play, I guess that was unusual but tbh seemed like any other random weeks grinding for the most. The new master crafting made it uneccesary to really trade for any rare gear, I did trade of course, but only because I could, not out of need, just sheer gluttony for a ring with no useless stats, some boots with an extra 5% move speed and 5% all resist etc. Just show gear greed for the sake of it, because I could. Same reason I got the hunger, no one needs that dagger, theres nothing in the game that justifies the existence of such a weapon. Its like living in a city like london or new york and you buy a 5 million dollar sports car that can go over 200 mph despite never driving it on a street thats limit goes over 50. You made the money so why not waste it on something obscene?

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Mannoth wrote:

So within 5 DAYS of rampage you got a:

270 pdps 6L Harbinger
3x 20q gems
5L coil
Rats Nest

Unless you went no-life, flipped items or got extremely lucky it's unlikely.

You are suposed to melt stuff when you have a 6L like that lol.
I melt 78 maps on my facebreaker with an investment of 5-8ex that is not the point, i even removed Melee Splash from it because the ignite from herald of ash is enough.

A 6xT1 harbinger is DOUBLE your bow dps, so what is the problem here?
You want to say reaching HALF of the possible maximum is still broken?

Game isn't designed around 6xT1 weapons obviously, but that doesn't mean it's broken.
Every build is pretty much one shotting lower content after a point.

I didnt get the gems 20q in the first week, they leveled up and I flipped them with a gcp at some point.


Half the possible dps is verging on broken yes, at that point you can rape the entire game with sickening ease. Thats fine, because half the dps was previous almost impossible to find, ever, I made a massive post a while back about this, how a binos is like half the possible dps yet it annihilates the entire game. However you are like 20x as likely to find a binos than you are to find a rare dagger than even comes close to a binos, how bullshit that was and how we needed something like crafting to step in and make weapons that approach half the possible dps somewhat available to casuals, because they virtually never drop.

Thanks to the new crafting half the dps type weapons are now actually easy to find, that bow would ave been vendor food before, now I can make it into a sick endgame weapon that beats every map in the game like taking candy from a child. Is that broken? Well its a little too easy imo, but I was one of the people who argued for it and imo the game is more healthy with it than without. Fair play. Whats not ok is making a weapon thats like 90% of the possible dps from alts and regals, thats broken beyond broken.

Some things potentially exist in this game that are ridiculously broken, their potential is only there to give the game fun. What I mean by that is there is always the possiblity to find something absolutely ridiculous, this isnt some diablo 3 game where nothing is that bad and nothing is that great and its all really limited and lame, theres potential for massively insane items to randomly pop up in your loot. But theyre not meant to exist in any quantity, theyre not meant to be there for everyone to have one, its just there as a potential so that you know when you go out grinding theres the opportunity for this one in 100,000,000,000,000 drop that no matter what you own is going to be leagues beyond it..., unless you own mirror worthy gear or close to it already, at which point that potential is gone, that reason to keep going is gone. Trust me guys, dont go there, play the game, enjoy, enjoy that theres always upgrades and you will never own those 6xT1 stat items, thats the fun zone where the magic is still in the air. The less work or randomness involved in getting a thing, the less sweet it tastes, allow the game to taste so sweet, enjoy that juicy rng, enjoy playing a challenging game that pushes you as an individual, enjoy the grind. If you eventually get there, 'complete' the characters, you know whats next? Rerolling in a fresh league and doing it all over again, because that char you were building all this time is finished and theres nothing in the game that can justify using such a character against, thats why finding gear like that, up to now, has been a virtual impossibility, and it should stay that way.

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The master crafting was never intended to help along the self found crew. It was brought as an attempt to stimulate trading, grouping and seeking leveling/crafting services among the players who normally do not.

The ultimate goal is to have all players contributing to the economic pyramid.

Has it worked? I'm unqualified to say. However, I have shared some master quests with a few guild friends! I've also added a half dozen or so low level mods for a laugh. It's a bit rich for my blood though. :)

I dont think thats true at all, I think thats ow your jaded position on the game in general wants it to be. the masters crafting as obliterated the trade scene so if it was there intent to stimulate it then what an epic fail as they took a very active economy and smashed it to pieces. The reality is that they did this because people wanted crafting and people were not happy with the elvel of gear they were finding, this was the fix at the expense of the economy, they knew it was at the expense of the economy and they did it anyway because the levels of but hurt in the forums were real and the looting game did have serious flaws with its massively swingy rng.

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zzang wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

then you obviously dont see very well, hence why you have the position on this you do.

No, this sentence prove me more like yuo are pretty pissed about all your invested time into high end game gear make you feel bad hence the position you have.

this high end game gear that I dont even use? This gear that I abandoned to play solo self found in a new hardcore league? You dont understand me, you are too busy seeing what you presume to be here, not taking in what I am actually saying.

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zzang wrote:

Also next time when you try to prove a point try to look from average player's sight not just from yours, a fresh load of new players would do only good to this game while i think a lot of elitists could take a long break from the game and it would go unnoticed, also would make me happy to not read such elitist sounding stuff.

the problem we are having is that I am actually seeing this from an average players point of view, but as an average player you have no experience to see it from my point of view, thats where the trouble is. You think I got that dagger first day of open beta? You think I had all my silly 6 link armours first day of the game? Ive been where you are, Ive played with your gear, for a long, long time, problem is you have never been where I am, you have never played with my gear, you have never been where you want to go, I have been there, I know whats at the end of the rainbow, thats why we disagree. Its not that I have forgotten what its like to be a casual level player, its that you have no idea what it is you are asking for, you dont realise just how far beyond faceroll this level of gear is.

It would make me happy to not have people with no clue what they are talking about and no experience of the things they want access to trying to argue with me from a point of absolute ignorance and then have the cheek to turn around and say I am the one being an elitist and being warped by my sense of greed when I am actually trying to protect this game at the expense of my own gearing potential, for the good of the game in general, that you people are too ignorant to even see past your own desire for op gear.

As an owner of a mirrored weapon, I think it's perfectly alright for others to have as much fun as me, but then I don't exactly play to be challenged.

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Ivanovichy wrote:

As an owner of a mirrored weapon, I think it's perfectly alright for others to have as much fun as me, but then I don't exactly play to be challenged.

The shinning example of why mirror fee profiteering is so profitable and destructive.

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Ivanovichy wrote:

As an owner of a mirrored weapon, I think it's perfectly alright for others to have as much fun as me, but then I don't exactly play to be challenged.

obviously.

So the game wasnt fun before you had a mirrored weapon? you think the game is more fun for you now than anyone else is having without a mirrored weapon?

I dont really understand where fun comes into it tbh.