Appeal to GGG – Mana leech

im pretty sure that people are able to adapt - maybe try to play with mana at least once. it can be done, people have done it before

i do not think that these changes are going to be reverted.

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sidtherat wrote:

i do not think that these changes are going to be reverted.

Probably not, no matter how much we'd like them to give nerfing leech another shot, using a shotgun loaded with birdshot this time so everything gets peppered equally.

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raics wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

i do not think that these changes are going to be reverted.

Probably not, no matter how much we'd like them to give nerfing leech another shot, using a shotgun loaded with birdshot this time so everything gets peppered equally.

agreed. direction is correct. application - not much so.

from what i saw in all mana leech topics the real problem is: CI self casters. but even these probably are solvable with current mana-tools

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sidtherat wrote:

from what i saw in all mana leech topics the real problem is: CI self casters. but even these probably are solvable with current mana-tools

BUT AT WHAT COST!?!?!?

I hope you catch my drift.

Nearly any problem in this game can be solved with ridiculously expensive gear and a finely tuned skill build. I don't that's the correct standard to set.

Every time a balance change comes up about anything and people wonder why their build stops working, you could just reply "oh it's solvable -- just get the best of everything and tune your tree up more."

I've experienced the pain of building self-casting attack characters and it truly is miserable - unless you are talking about whole builds built around specific items like soultaker. I don't really count that.

There is a reason blood magic has been such a major thing for so long, and will continue to be.

That reason is: the mana system is shit.

i expect BM gem to get hit sooner than latter. it is no-brainer choice and ggg seems to be very determined to remove such choices (Except iron reflexes.. that puzzles me a bit)

and WHAT COST? like 5-6 passives, not more. i deem it to be a fair cost

and 'standard' builds - like in 4L builds - have no mana issues if they dont over-stack their dps

it is all matter of greed - dps greed. no mana system will ever be fine if people are expecting to spend ZERO mana points and consider 3 points to be over the top. with such mindset nothing is going to be 'ok'

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sidtherat wrote:

i expect BM gem to get hit sooner than latter. it is no-brainer choice and ggg seems to be very determined to remove such choices (Except iron reflexes.. that puzzles me a bit)

Not from where I'm standing (GGG's determination about removing that), at least they don't act the same in all situations, somewhere the no-brainders are shocking and need to be removed, yet somewhere those are actually promoted.

And by the way, even though it is a no-brainer, it has it's drawbacks (just like IR).

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sidtherat wrote:

it is all matter of greed - dps greed. no mana system will ever be fine if people are expecting to spend ZERO mana points and consider 3 points to be over the top. with such mindset nothing is going to be 'ok'

My Ranger Reaver spend 5 points for mana passives, had more than 150 int and about 300 free mana after auras (or rather aura as I wanted to have more free mana). My Reave cost wise is 4L as I was using Additional Accuracy to reduce mana cost instead of DPS wise better supports. Yes, it was build for speed (I had 11 APS), but Reave is rather not to be used with slow weapon, isn't it? And now, she would be unable to build full Reave stacks before she run out of mana. And how much passives I should spend on mana on fu*** melee?

Balancing GGG way, like with Poison Arrow, first butcher something and next maybe deliver some alternative solution. Or not.

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sidtherat wrote:

and WHAT COST? like 5-6 passives, not more. i deem it to be a fair cost

and 'standard' builds - like in 4L builds - have no mana issues if they dont over-stack their dps

it is all matter of greed - dps greed. no mana system will ever be fine if people are expecting to spend ZERO mana points and consider 3 points to be over the top. with such mindset nothing is going to be 'ok'

I already spent 3 points (pre-patch) run 4L only and my DPS is fairly rubbish (3700, or about 3200 after changing all my stuff to try and get sustainable mana). This didn't matter to me, because I got decent life regen out of my build using LGoH and attack speed. Anyway, my build is so horrendously broken right now that reassigning 3 points hasn't a hope in hell of fixing it, or I really wouldn't be making a fuss. I really hate to complain, it's my least-favourite pass time. Honest.

PS I've seen a lot of posts saying those of us with issues "over-reached" or effectively bought what we couldn't afford. This is utter ****.

The point is that we could afford it. It's like carefully budgeting, spending your money on a new Jag (as an existing analogy states), finding it very, very affordable for, say, a few years, then having Jaguar retroactively triple the price, somehow charge you backpayments and then repossesing your house when you can't pay.

PS if you went a ridiculously point-heavy route as a method of sustaining mana when you could have been using MS, you WERE PLAYING THE GAME WRONG. Points are precious. We spent them in a way that worked, based on the mechanics of the game. This wasn't out of greed. This was a necessity to get by. And playing 100% self found, off my own build, solo, I think it's crazy, and maybe hypocritical, to suggest than we were somehow being 'cheap' just because we worked within the boundaries of the game instead of mis-spending points to artifically make things more difficult for ourself on the basis of some unfounded principle that one, of the many mechanics, was 'too easy'. If you disagree, go stack your resists to 200 (because 75 IS easy) and then come back and tell me how you benefitted from that.

PPS don't take this personally, this is not an attack so much as an aggressive defense. I get that you want to be possitive and support the game, and so do I, but maybe 100 hours of my very inefficiantly spent time have been stolen from me. And it's NOT my fault, and it's not right. And I'm a little frustrated that after 13 pages no one at GGG has seen fit to comment on this.

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sidtherat wrote:

i expect BM gem to get hit sooner than latter. it is no-brainer choice and ggg seems to be very determined to remove such choices (Except iron reflexes.. that puzzles me a bit)

and WHAT COST? like 5-6 passives, not more. i deem it to be a fair cost

and 'standard' builds - like in 4L builds - have no mana issues if they dont over-stack their dps

it is all matter of greed - dps greed. no mana system will ever be fine if people are expecting to spend ZERO mana points and consider 3 points to be over the top. with such mindset nothing is going to be 'ok'

6 passives dedicated to mana is a shitload.

This outlook is the exact opposite of how a good system functions.

A good system encourages a wide variety of different builds and facilitates players achieving that.

A bad system forces every build down the same path, which seems to be exactly what you are advocating. Boo.

Also, you're starting to show a significant lack of knowledge in the subject area. 5 - 6 passives and you're done? For a CI self-cast attacker?

Clearly you have never done that build before, or at least never really gone very far with it. The mana system is hilariously bad.

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tikitaki wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

i expect BM gem to get hit sooner than latter. it is no-brainer choice and ggg seems to be very determined to remove such choices (Except iron reflexes.. that puzzles me a bit)

and WHAT COST? like 5-6 passives, not more. i deem it to be a fair cost

and 'standard' builds - like in 4L builds - have no mana issues if they dont over-stack their dps

it is all matter of greed - dps greed. no mana system will ever be fine if people are expecting to spend ZERO mana points and consider 3 points to be over the top. with such mindset nothing is going to be 'ok'

6 passives dedicated to mana is a shitload.

This outlook is the exact opposite of how a good system functions.

A good system encourages a wide variety of different builds and facilitates players achieving that.

A bad system forces every build down the same path, which seems to be exactly what you are advocating. Boo.

Also, you're starting to show a significant lack of knowledge in the subject area. 5 - 6 passives and you're done? For a CI self-cast attacker?

Clearly you have never done that build before, or at least never really gone very far with it. The mana system is hilariously bad.

6 out of 100 is acceptable. and is needed only if you use extreme aspd attacks and few 150%cost supports (multistrikes 180% says hi). i hope that people start thinking now in more than one dimension. thats called diversity - want huuuuge paper dps? foot the bill

how many points have you put into damage? 20? life/es? 40? and 6 is suddenly a lot?

say it - youd like all skills to be free

it is like that ferrari - you want one, you buy one but you 'forget' that you need to actually support it and then cry foul

CI self-casters are in the worst situation (Esp freezepulse) but i hope ggg solves it