Appeal to GGG – Mana leech

RMT kids have absolutly no problems with those changes, they can have 6L easily and gear with mana rolls. It casual SF ppl who those changes shits most on, one who has no points to spend on mana, because RNG granted him shitty gear.

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RagnarokChu wrote:

Let's be honest here, Clarity is at higher levels is a massive investment of total mana that characters in the lower bottom of the tree almost have none of. 240 mana reserve at level 10 clarity that almost takes half of more of your mana globe is crazy just to run your attacks, you can't even run any other aura. It might not be even enough to sustain your attack since your attacking even attacking at an average attack speed with a 5link (god forbid 6 link) and you regen 16ish a second with the mana regen 40% buff.

You're giving up too quickly and it's really not that hard for a melee fighter to manage a modest mana pool. You start with about 600-700 mana and 40-60% Increased Mana Regen. Combine a 60% aura with level 8-10 Clarity, and a level-16 Reduced Mana gem. The aura then costs 45% and Clarity's around 150 mana, for a total of about 400 mana reserved. That leaves you with 200-300 mana free and regen of around 40 mana/sec.

If you want to push it farther, you can take the 16% reduced mana reserve cluster up at the Templar area. This will save enough mana to allow you to add a 40% aura to your 60% aura plus Clarity. You'll also want to add enough Increased Mana Regen nodes to get your regen over 50 mana/sec. As long as your main attack doesn't cost more than your regen, you'll be able to spam as much as you like.

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tmaciak wrote:

It casual SF ppl who those changes shits most on, one who has no points to spend on mana, because RNG granted him shitty gear.

Kinda funny, because I'm in that camp, and my response to the life changes was "Nice balance change on their part. I guess I'll just delete all my characters at reroll a bunch of new ones, in the new leagues." Which is exactly what I'm doing now, except in turns out I really like Ambush so they're all there.

So I feel this comes down a lot less to RMT — because let's face it, someone who spent actual money on gear and got his build shit on would probably be even more pissed than OP — and more to do with your reroll affinity. For anyone who enjoys racing, I don't think there are many shed tears; after all, racing is rerolling.

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RogueMage wrote:

That leaves you with 200-300 mana free and regen of around 40 mana/sec

Which is very significant when spitting out five to ten 50-mana spectral throws per second, no doubt. Regen isn't really suited for attackers, they typically have too high usage rate of skills and total mana consumption rate comparable to casters without all those options for mana improvements on gear and tree.

so maybe scale your dps with something else than attack speed if you know you cannot afford it?


and about the self found guys - i play self found. bought maybe 10 items, mostly uniques i couldnt be bothered to farm


and i know that if i have similar items - one with IIR and another with Mana - ill pick the second one. but im pretty sure that im the only one

im not buying this fairy tale about people not finding right gear. it is the greed that is the problem

I think the key to making mana interesting is divorcing mana regeneration rate from mana pool size. That would allow a gamut of mana variety and viability we currently do not have i.e. big mana pool, no regen; small mana pool, huge regen. Combine that with sustainability options like flasks, mana generating active skills (MGoH & Leech), and you've got a recipe for meaningful choice.

Granted the above would also necessitate some changes to the aura system which is balanced around big mana=big regen.

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sidtherat wrote:

so maybe scale your dps with something else than attack speed if you know you cannot afford it?

Which probably means people shouldn't try to build for APS on lower part of the tree without BM at all... which might be a problem, that's where the whole speed theme is based. Gear should work as an enabler for niche things, not one of the most basic attacker styles.

And maybe you misunderstand, I'm not complaining about myself, skills on my builds typically aren't supported heavily on mana side and I ain't a big fan of such builds. Maybe it's a bit funny but I usually carry a few mana flasks even though I rarely use them, it's a habit of sorts, no adventurer should go around without those.
Anyway, speed builds should be possible with the tools available to fighters, heavy mana investment is a caster thing, no fighter should be forced to crossclass to do his thing.

@Veta:
It's done in an interesting way in titan quest, most of the caster gear and item mods offer %regen, but base regen is available only on staves, a few atrifacts and as a function of INT stat. So only casters have much of it and mana leech is also a VERY rare mod found on uniques only, mana drain is readily available but it isn't too effective.
So how does it work then? Simple, TQ isn't a spam-game, shield bash has a couple of seconds cooldown and whirlwind has 10s or so, you have enough mana to clean up an encounter and you regen it by the time you get to the next one, in prolonged fights you use mana flasks.

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@Veta:
It's done in an interesting way in titan quest, most of the caster gear and item mods offer %regen, but base regen is available only on staves, a few atrifacts and as a function of INT stat. So only casters have much of it and mana leech is also a VERY rare mod found on uniques only, mana drain is readily available but it isn't too effective.
So how does it work then? Simple, TQ isn't a spam-game, shield bash has a couple of seconds cooldown and whirlwind has 10s or so, you have enough mana to clean up an encounter and you regen it by the time you get to the next one, in prolonged fights you use mana flasks.

Sounds fun, I need to go back and play TQ.

ofc they can build for fast aspd. but these builds have costs associated. in the southern part of the tree ggg decided to put emphasis on Reduced Mana Cost (recent marauder tree changes added +10%, also there is new +20% cluster between duelist and marauder). Duelist starting mana nodes are amazing and not taking all 3 is just crazy. you need int for auras (wrath is mandatory for high aspd attacks) anyway so the base mana is there. also mana on kill works wonders when stacked. there is also that reduced mana gem.. gem i think noone ever used to support non-auras


i know these sound less appealing than 'one gem, solved' that we had previously but i think this is way better for the gameplay than previous situation

problems solved:

- high attack speed weapons are no longer auto-picks. high aspd has its cost now
- multistrike is no longer auto-pick. it has its cost now

i for one think it is good in the long run

btw - what i agree on is that the solution - while very effective - is not uniform and some skills are affected more than others

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sidtherat wrote:

i know these sound less appealing than 'one gem, solved' that we had previously but i think this is way better for the gameplay than previous situation

problems solved:

- high attack speed weapons are no longer auto-picks. high aspd has its cost now
- multistrike is no longer auto-pick. it has its cost now

i for one think it is good in the long run

btw - what i agree on is that the solution - while very effective - is not uniform and some skills are affected more than others

Of course, I agree something should be done, but I really don't like the way they went about it. And we still have our 1-gem wonder - blood magic, which I suspect will become even more popular and 5-6 link gear price will rise even more alongside the price plunge of jewelry with mana leech.

Multistrike is actually pretty mana-friendly, if you spread its cost over time it has only 120% multiplier. DPS multi isn't that stellar, only 130% or so, but it works on all damage types and the utility value is great.

I think devs should sit and hae a talk about what do they want to do with the game in the first place. Do they want skills to be spammable or no, if yes how hard do they want it to be, or do they perhaps want only AoE skills to be unspammable? If that's the intention, this is a very clumsy way to go about it, really half-assed.