1200 fusings, no 6 link

Fuck I feared doing it too the only reason I did was because like I mentioned prior there was nothing left for me to get. It's either play the game with the same gear forever being bored or go for the one achievement I hadn't reached yet. Trust me, if I knew there was upgrades I could have spent those orbs on I would have much rather done that then craft my own shit.

This is the itemization balancing act.

Casual players need to be powerful enough to enjoy the end game while power-gamers still need to have almost-utopian items to strive for.

I think GGG have gotten the first part right. I am a casual player (~10 hrs per week) and I am enjoying the end game, with-out being too powerful or not powerful enough.
The latter part I am not sure though. I see an alarming amount of near-perfect items. I even think that GGG got a bit surprised on how good items players have already accumlated (Chris' comments in the BotW 14 video).

In D2 this problem was solved by having a more binary item aproach. Casual players could level a Meteorb'er and easily farm Mephisto or AT for most end-game worthy items. For the top-level items, high-level rune-words and top uniques, it however takes an immense effort and only the most dedicated players will have these items. Both types of players will however enjoy the game, just doing different things in the end game.

In PoE the itemization is much more continuous and because of this, it is harder to balance. I hope GGG solves this, not by adding end-all-be-all items (like Grief or Infinity) or must-have affixes, but by making top-tier affixes and socket layouts much harder to obtain than they are today.

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Danos wrote:

I don't think anyone is afraid of using fusing orbs. Most of the people in the top 30 or so players either have used fusings to craft a 6 link, have traded for a 6 link, have found a 6 link, have mirrored a 6 link, or have used 1000+ fusings and failed to craft one. It seems to me like people view a 6 link as an inevitability, and the randomness as a nuisance. The whole ''fear'' aspect of it seems like a bunch of nonsense to me.

Who exactly is afraid of wasting currencies trying to get a 6 link? Are the 2 or 3 of you suggesting that this is an issue speaking from experience, or making assumptions about other people?

I mean, sure, there's a cost to attempting to make one, and it doesn't make sense to try and craft one if you have better things to use your currencies on, but after a certain point it makes sense to try and craft one. Unless you don't really benefit from having one, I guess.

Also I'd like to point out, again, that removing both the low end and high end of RNG for fusings wouldn't create more of them in the economy. Simply removing the high end would, but I never suggested that.

Also, if a lot of people saved up to try and craft one, the value of fusings in the economy would greatly increase, and it wouldn't be as easy to hoard a bunch like it is now. I know that when just one other person started buying fusings while I was trying to buy mine, it was a lot harder to get any.

That's the entire point danos, those of us who know what we're doing, have been around a while, have done this circus before, know that there is little to fear, so to speak, of trying to craft a 6l, as opposed to the general feelings of doom this community harbors towards that project. Is it elitist? Yes, however, who exactly are 6l's targetted towards, the casuals, or the elitists? When you can easily solo the entire game on a 3-4L, I am tempted to say that 6ls are relatively reserved for the "elite" so to speak.

A lot of interesting things I've read this morning, and a lot I'd like to comment on.. But on the topic of time, I have only a few minutes before I have to get ready for work :)

One thing is for certain: Adding a guaranteed 6L vendor craft recipe would be a bad thing, especially for the casual player. The tendency is to make the cost exceedingly high to counter the effect of removing RNG from the equation, and to maintain the vanity motivator as a means of extending end game content (once you have all of the best gear, what is left to fight for?)

A guaranteed 6L would, by its very nature, encourage more people to hoard even more fusing orbs, which would drastically decrease market mobility. The market is only healthy while it is mobile, while players of all economic "classes" are exchanging goods. I contend that fusing orbs are the most fluid currency for those of us with less buying power, and therefore provide us with the most mobility - they are more sought after than exalted orbs for the very reason of crafting a 6L, but they are the most easily obtainable "value" currency. Encourage half of the market to stop trading theirs away and their value increases, their fluidity decreases, and it becomes all that much more difficult for me (a casual) to leverage them for the resources that would otherwise improve my economic mobility.

The trick, imo, is to increase the desire to spend fusing without impeding their fluidity.. Anything that would encourage a large portion of the market to start hoarding excessively large quantities would do just that.

A brief interlude. This discussion is excellent. Thank god we're not debating RMAH.

Petrov.

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mrpetrov wrote:

A brief interlude. This discussion is excellent. Thank god we're not debating RMAH.

Petrov.

I heard they put a limit on the rmah, you MUST play through 5 hours of D3 to unlock the real end game, rmah.

More on topic: I'm pretty sure this is an easy way to sum it up: Dev's don't intend for casuals to have 5 or even 6 linked items, they can, but its not expected or intended.
In a timely fashion. Or untimely.

It's intended for anyone to be able to get a 5 or 6 link, but it's not expected they will within the first six months of play unless they are 'hardcore' or can exploit the economy or are just very lucky.

the very idea that RNG will somehow protect the LMAO!"economy Value" of 6l's is naive at best simply stupid at worst.

the minute you add a real number of players to this game beyond a closed economy the closed beta creates you increase the volume of 6l's exponentially not only will they suddenly flood the market they will become soooooo common as to be dirt cheap if not outright toss away's unless they have perfect stats.

RNG only keeps something rare with a small sample group when you add tens of thousands of players to the sample group with a simply random chance of 1-whatever that 6l will occur unlike a windforce bow in D2 which had a 1 in 14 billion chance of dropping if you killed a boss with at least an Ilvl of 97 or higher drop list. the random chance will be beaten frequently as it already has by some with nearly no or few fusings the sample groups size will directly affect the total number of items making it onto the market but unlike orbs 6L's stick around and will get traded at first with a value but the value has no choice but to continually drop as the game ages. this reason alone makes the entire premise of 6L's being truly valuable beyond useful is dumb.

the other thing about D2 and most likely PoE is botting which will happen to accumulate anything of trading value and that will include whatever it takes to make 6L's as fast and as often as possible until the market bottom drops out.

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Dragoneyes001 wrote:

the minute you add a real number of players to this game beyond a closed economy the closed beta creates you increase the volume of 6l's exponentially.

This is the biggest point that everyone complaining seems to completely ignore. You guys are upset you aren't able to get a 6l in the matter of 2-3 months. What happens when the population rises by 3-10x the average amount now (maybe even more if the game takes off) and you guys win making 6ls easier to get?

Seriously guys, don't ruin this game just so you can have a luxury item. You have a very short sighted view on the issue.

Well. Here's where you're wrong Dragon:

The few people that craft them, as a percent of a population, do not craft them to sell them. When I say this, I'm talking about god stat gear. So, to just go with current prices. At an average of say 300 fusings. That's 50 GCP right off the bat. If were talking about the current easiest to roll, that would be a ES chest. Let's add in oh 1k alts. That's another 20 GCP. Now we can talk about Regals. Let's say you can regal 2 per 50. At 2 per GCP. That's another 20 GCP. Plus 3 exalts. That's 18 GCP. Now, we will most likely have to divine that piece until necessary. Let's say 5 divines. That's another 15 GCP.

So total is 128 GCP. That's breaking even on average, at best you could save a lot, at worst you could spend literally an infinite amount more.

Last but certainly not least. This is what ladders are for. You really think the most competitive and time per day player will.stay on one league? I know I won't.

So I recommend you learn why we have ladders, and what they are for. And again, that's 128 GCP for the easiest to roll chest. Good luck with anything else.