PoE - Diablo 3

I have been totally betrayed by the way the new leaders of the Diablo franchise have taken the game in this third installment. I have written extensively elsewhere about this so I am really tired of trying to make my point, but the game isn't made by the same talent and creative minds that made the first two installments.

Let me put it this way for ease:

A record company might own the rights to the name and album created by a band. Lets for example use the band Smashing Pumpkins. Now the Smashing Pumpkins made music together and released albums, but eventually they broke up. However, this record company hires new band members to replace the old members but keeps the same name. They tell the new members to sound like the old band members when they make new music, but this only goes so far. In the end all of the old fans know the difference, and those who don't are too new or too ignorant and buy the albums anyways just like the record company wanted.

In essence I am not the gullible fool who looks at Diablo 3 with the idea that it is the same game. Its different people making it, and shares almost nothing the same except that it is backed by large buying power and the name "Diablo". Its too bad Blizzard North was disbanded, because their version of Diablo 3 would have been the only one I would have liked.


Now Path of Exile looks to be like something I can sink my teeth into, and I really like the way it is shaping up. Bravo to them for stepping up to the plate.

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Vvemoth wrote:

I have been totally betrayed by the way the new leaders of the Diablo franchise have taken the game in this third installment. I have written extensively elsewhere about this so I am really tired of trying to make my point, but the game isn't made by the same talent and creative minds that made the first two installments.

Let me put it this way for ease:

A record company might own the rights to the name and album created by a band. Lets for example use the band Smashing Pumpkins. Now the Smashing Pumpkins made music together and released albums, but eventually they broke up. However, this record company hires new band members to replace the old members but keeps the same name. They tell the new members to sound like the old band members when they make new music, but this only goes so far. In the end all of the old fans know the difference, and those who don't are too new or too ignorant and buy the albums anyways just like the record company wanted.

In essence I am not the gullible fool who looks at Diablo 3 with the idea that it is the same game. Its different people making it, and shares almost nothing the same except that it is backed by large buying power and the name "Diablo". Its too bad Blizzard North was disbanded, because their version of Diablo 3 would have been the only one I would have liked.


Now Path of Exile looks to be like something I can sink my teeth into, and I really like the way it is shaping up. Bravo to them for stepping up to the plate.

That's retarded and comparing music to video games is idiotic.

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permaximum wrote:

This is the first time I see PoE's skill system but heard that FF7 used some part of it also. But if something is innovative here it's PoE's skill system because there is only 1 close example for it.

Actually, this skill system sounds nearly identical to FF7s. Still need specific slots, some slots are linked, the gems level up. The difference is that "master" level for FF7 was 5(or 6?) while I think the devs had said upwards of 20 for their skill gems. Also the FF7 gems would create a level one copy of itself when you reached master level.

Technically both D3 and PoE skill systems have been used in some form before, and for rpgs. Neither for aRPGs(that I know of).

I have always wondered why no other games stole the "materia" skill system from FF7. But I am glad to finally see it again.

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Septile wrote:

That's retarded and comparing music to video games is idiotic.

It was an analogy comparing the relationship of a product and the owner of said product. In this case the product was music (very analogous to art and gaming as an art since they are very perception based and difficult to emulate by others), the music was produced by a few individuals. When the minds and the talent behind the music produced left, then the owner of the product decided to try and imitate the individuals that left by hiring new ones and motivating them with an exchange (often money). This method will not work unless you are extremely lucky and find somebody else as talented as the individuals who left and share the same perception of the art they are trying to imitate. Needless to say it doesn't fool most people.

Sorry to make your brain explode, the concept is actually easy to understand :)

My Loyalty to the Diablo series is 1st and foremost, yes I am joining POE to curb by wait for DIII. I have totally played out DI and DII to the nth degree.

I will say no game has taken up my time since DI came out. With that said I am excited to join the ranks of POE. The 1st game in many moons to grab my interest

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Vvemoth wrote:

Sorry to make your brain explode, the concept is actually easy to understand :)

Yep, D3 isn't exactly the same as D2, just like D2 was A LOT different than D1. You've figured it out. It will still be great, IMO.

Copying already overused systems without even taking the time to change them a little bit to match the game IS bad... If i wanted to play "the greatest selling and most played game of all time" i would do just that, now wouldn' I?

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Vvemoth wrote:

I have been totally betrayed by the way the new leaders of the Diablo franchise have taken the game in this third installment. I have written extensively elsewhere about this so I am really tired of trying to make my point, but the game isn't made by the same talent and creative minds that made the first two installments.

Let me put it this way for ease:

A record company might own the rights to the name and album created by a band. Lets for example use the band Smashing Pumpkins. Now the Smashing Pumpkins made music together and released albums, but eventually they broke up. However, this record company hires new band members to replace the old members but keeps the same name. They tell the new members to sound like the old band members when they make new music, but this only goes so far. In the end all of the old fans know the difference, and those who don't are too new or too ignorant and buy the albums anyways just like the record company wanted.

In essence I am not the gullible fool who looks at Diablo 3 with the idea that it is the same game. Its different people making it, and shares almost nothing the same except that it is backed by large buying power and the name "Diablo". Its too bad Blizzard North was disbanded, because their version of Diablo 3 would have been the only one I would have liked.


Now Path of Exile looks to be like something I can sink my teeth into, and I really like the way it is shaping up. Bravo to them for stepping up to the plate.

I have no problem with the analogy, but I do have a problem with the conclusion.

1st. it assumes the new team cannot make a game as good as the old team. Which, we do not currently know since the game isn't released.

2nd. As was said previously, the original Diablo was far different from D2. Didn't change the fact that both games were exellent, and in my opionion the 2nd was superior.

3rd. Saying that the original team's D3 had it been made, would have been better, is again nothing more than an assumption.

4th. Didn't a large number of the orignal people behind D2 make Torchlight and Fate? Although both games were fun, I do not rank those above D2 in terms of quality/balance.

5th. You are again assuming that PoE will be exellent, which I do hope it is, but since we haven't played it either it seems a bit hasty to make it the game you have been waiting for. You can get burnt easily by raising expectations to high, I was guilty of that as well in the past (Spore/new Star Wars films).

So, lets hold off on the judging just for a bit. My 2 cents.

*edit*

Also, calling others gullible fools for looking forward to D3 isn't a good stance to take. You could be just as foolish and ignorant waiting for PoE. Only time will tell.

You make some good points, and I was unintentionally exaggerating when I said that Diablo 3 shared almost nothing with Diablo 1 and 2 except the title.

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Wittgenstein wrote:

1st. it assumes the new team cannot make a game as good as the old team. Which, we do not currently know since the game isn't released.

I don't believe that this new team will be incompetent, that was really not the message I was trying to relay. Just like musicians, you can essentially hire many competent musicians who are good at playing their instrument. Even in the same genre. But there are some talented people who are difficult to emulate, even if you can play one of their own songs it is very unlikely you could write songs exactly like they would. That is why art whether through music, movies or otherwise has real value over time. How many Mozarts live today? How many Bachs?

These new developers will be competent in their field, but my problem is their perception of the Diablo franchise itself. I feel like they have betrayed it, and I haven't actually explained why I feel that way (but I can if you are interested).

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2nd. As was said previously, the original Diablo was far different from D2. Didn't change the fact that both games were exellent, and in my opionion the 2nd was superior.

Yes, I agree that both games have their differences. However, they both share the same spirit and are obviously conceived in the same creative mind. Again with the artistic analogy, you could see how an artist may create different works and yet still distinguish himself from others by a certain style. I feel like the style in Diablo 1 and 2 are similar, but that it has been lost in 3.

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3rd. Saying that the original team's D3 had it been made, would have been better, is again nothing more than an assumption.

I will definitely concede on this one, it is an assumption. However it is not an unreasonable conclusion, but may still be folly to put faith in men.

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4th. Didn't a large number of the orignal people behind D2 make Torchlight and Fate? Although both games were fun, I do not rank those above D2 in terms of quality/balance.

I honestly have not even looked into that game much because it seems to have the same look and feel that Diablo 3 had. Even if that is true, and some of the members make up that franchise there is good reason to consider different variables as to why that game wouldn't be as good. Most don't need to be discussed because they are obvious, but perhaps some things to consider are, Who directed Diablo 1 and 2? Who played a key role in designing environments and those inhabiting it? What kind of minds were behind the game play, or overall artistic feeling of the game? Who wrote the lore? If some of these members are missing from the new studio, the results of their game may be very different.

I would also add that even if there is one dominate but influential member, that may be all that was needed to direct something in the right direction. Executive power can be very useful when in the right hands. Warfare can be won and lost by giving executive power to the right general, not just the weapons and men under him.

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5th. You are again assuming that PoE will be exellent, which I do hope it is, but since we haven't played it either it seems a bit hasty to make it the game you have been waiting for. You can get burnt easily by raising expectations to high, I was guilty of that as well in the past (Spore/new Star Wars films).

Well perhaps my hopes are a bit high right now, but I don't imagine I will see anything in the game that will be extraordinary. What I do hope to see is the kind of environment and game play that I thoroughly enjoyed in Diablo 1 and 2. Those games are simple concepts. The dark gothic feeling. Its a song that many could play, so to speak. I don't see artistic genius behind Path of Exile, but I do see competent developers making something I would enjoy. I suppose I just like this genre altogether and hope the best for the game.

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Also, calling others gullible fools for looking forward to D3 isn't a good stance to take. You could be just as foolish and ignorant waiting for PoE. Only time will tell.

Perhaps. I didn't call any individual a gullible fool though. I only called the person acting like one, the person who would be gullible to look at the title "Diablo" and see the same game as the first and second but not realize that there is much separating them. Including the minds that made the first two.

As you might agree people in general are fickle. Its the fickle, easily persuaded sort that would not have much of an opinion about the new installment of the franchise (and dutifully defend it against all reasoning). But those of us who played it and were immersed in it will see the difference. Imitation art is worth much less than the original.

all people here will play d3 and Poe, because we love this genre.. i think this thread goes off topic we shouldn´t say eyy diablo 3 is bad or poe is the true diablo or something like that. we dont know it!! and the time will bring us the trues;) for sure.