The Palpable and Uninformed Hate and Dismissal of POE1 Veterans Sounding the Alarm is Worrying

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

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Shrodin#0981 wrote:

I ask that GGG stay true to their vision instead of kneejerk reacting to feedback.

Also, being a veteran of POE1 doesn't give me more credibility than others. If anything, give more credibility to those that have a plethora of game experience or perhaps their own game design experience.

The reason there is pushback is that people slap on "I have 10k hours of POE1, therefore you should pay more attention to my feedback than someone who never played POE1" when providing their feedback. Even the term POE Veteran is already implying, "pay more attention to me." It's asinine.

Edit: people seem to forget that POE2 has been marketed as a game with more methodical, strategic moment-to-moment gameplay. The reason it's an entirely new game is so that they can break away from the shackles of POE1, yet everyone is trying to shackle this game with POE1 solutions and ideas. I want the next evolution of ARPG, not a sidegrade.

You are completely right.

Just because you're a veteran of a game, doesn't mean your opinion on changes is the correct one.

Lots of people coming in to try this game have experience with dozens, or even hundreds of other games.

When you do nothing but play PoE. You cannot see things objectively. It really is that simple. You get used to mechanics and systems over the years. And when people complain about them, they're shot down as insignificant.


I have experience in many games, I know what people like in each of these games. I also know that many of the systems in PoE, developed over years, to appeal to a small portion of the playerbase. Alienating tons of other potential customers/players.

Having 10,000 hours in a game might give you a better balance sense. But it sure as hell doesn't help you understand where improvements can be made, because you have no other viewpoints to compare it to.

The 10,000 hour veterans for instance. All want the crafting system back in the game. So they can get their gear crafted

But the root issue, is that for 12 years, they've been playing with crappy PoE loot, and crafting was the solution. They don't realize that the loot in this game is just inherently bad in many ways.

They can fix this in PoE 2. But everyone's just asking for more crafting orbs instead. lol. They have no idea, because they have a narrow viewpoint, and habits.

When a game has a ton of players coming in and telling you 'I don't like this, I don't like that'. You should generally, try to listen to them. Gamers know what's fun, and what's not fun. Getting one shot by an enemy is unfun. It's not a moment for a 10,000 hour idiot to go 'Just build better and git gud'.

There's tons of people on the forums right now complaining about loot. I think GGG needs to take this to heart. And refrain from trying to fix it with currency. We're back to PoE 1. Where most of the loot was very very very boring. Because they expected you to trade and craft to progress. Rather than just killing bosses and getting better loot off it.

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Shrodin#0981 wrote:

Well said. I've learned over the past few days browsing the forum that the poe1 community kind of sucks.

It's the brainrot from staring at your computer screen for 10,000 hours, spamming exalts on a chestpiece.

From what I've seen, there are three main camps of veterans: those who want the old game back, those who are enjoying the current game because it's just the old game made more punishing, and those who are tired of PoE1 being a zoom-zoom tradehustler's game and want PoE2 to offer a new gameplay experience. I'm in the third camp.

Something a lot of people don't realize is that, once you hit the endgame, PoE2 actually is PoE1 all over again. It's just that progression is far more annoying thanks to the inflated currency market, map sustain being harder due to maps being way rarer and more valuable, and lack of viable builds. You're still encouraged to clear maps as quickly as possible, and you're still playing a game where the endgame is just slamming exalts and playing the market. The difference is that the pace is a little slower and dying to misplays/bad affixes/bad maps is more punishing. People who say the PoE2 Atlas isn't just PoE1 are either ignorant or are being intentionally dishonest.

And I really do mean dishonest. There are a few certain trolls lurking these forums who seek out every thread just to drive a wedge between the monolithic bloc of "poe1 veterans" and "everyone else." It's almost as if veterans from the first game have different perspectives on poe2 (wow!).

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Gwonam#5505 wrote:

From what I've seen, there are three main camps of veterans: those who want the old game back, those who are enjoying the current game because it's just the old game made more punishing, and those who are tired of PoE1 being a zoom-zoom tradehustler's game and want PoE2 to offer a new gameplay experience. I'm in the third camp.

Something a lot of people don't realize is that, once you hit the endgame, PoE2 actually is PoE1 all over again. It's just that progression is far more annoying thanks to the inflated currency market, map sustain being harder due to maps being way rarer and more valuable, and lack of viable builds. You're still encouraged to clear maps as quickly as possible, and you're still playing a game where the endgame is just slamming exalts and playing the market. The difference is that the pace is a little slower and dying to misplays/bad affixes/bad maps is more punishing. People who say the PoE2 Atlas isn't just PoE1 are either ignorant or are being intentionally dishonest.

And I really do mean dishonest. There are a few certain trolls lurking these forums who seek out every thread just to drive a wedge between the monolithic bloc of "poe1 veterans" and "everyone else." It's almost as if veterans from the first game have different perspectives on poe2 (wow!).

I've played this game since closed beta, 2011, and my main gripe is the direction that the game went in shortly after launch.

I saw a game that had a lot of potential, turn into a map running simulator. Then I saw the currency creep come into the game, as more and more things were added to make up for the poor loot in the game.

If you didn't play with a loot filter. You'd kill a boss and it would explode into 100 items. But 98 of them were garbage.

I don't want PoE 2 to become that. I definitely want a new experience. I think we should take what made PoE 1 great. Which was the skill gems, and build variety. The passive tree, and the uniques. And bring that into PoE 2.

Then, pair that with better combat.(and the combat still needs way more polish), as well as cool awesome bosses and enemies. And we'll really start seeing the game shine in the best way possible.

There's no reason we should need a loot filter. There's no reason we should need currency to get gear. There's no reason we should be forced to min-max gear to progress. I don't even think the whole trade system has much value, at least in it's current form. Maybe player stores or something.. All of these are the bad aspects of PoE 1 imo. That could be improved, or removed.



I also.. And this might be controversial. But, I think they should make the zones smaller, but with more emphasis, on creating unique enemies with special abilities that force you to move around more. Rather than just throwing tons of enemies at you in big zones. Think of it like playing a dark souls game. Where you fight 1 or 2 enemies at a time. Maybe 3. But not 20, or 30.

I think many of the zones are way too big, and a lot of the builds don't really have the same clearing capability as in PoE 1. So it's very tedious in certain area's. But also, like you kind of said. It turns the game into a zoom-zoom game. Because you'll always be building for clear speed when you're faced with 40 enemies on screen.

I honestly just don't understand people sometimes. I try, I really do, but you look at some people online and it's like they're completely on autopilot. The only thing they like is the thing they've been playing for 12 years, and even when the opportunity of a new game, made by their company comes along. They want that game, to be the same. I've seen some real clowns on here already. People demanding they be listened to be cause they have 15 supporter packs. Others yet that can't even come to terms with the fact that the game now requires you to move. Others yet are just here to complain that there's not enough end-game content, and sharing pictures of their 5, level 70 characters. 2 weeks after the games early access launched.

Do you believe in NPC theory..?

+1.

Soon to be 12 years in POE.
Around 1200 dollars spent on POE1 and another 100 on POE2.
9k hours across two accounts and three platforms.
I don't want everything to be tailored to fit my taste.
But I do know what generally DO work and what DOESN'T. I've partaken in every season and reset.
I'm surprised you released a game with these problems, because you should know too. It feels rushed.

Your game will fail if you do not make massive changes. To crafting, endgame, maps, currency, ascendency, and melee to name a few.

Your worry isn't releasing another 6 classes and 18 more ascendancies.
Your worry should be already having huge problems bottleneck build diversity among the ones you already released through really bad game mechanics.

Notice how I didn't mention difficulty once.

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eldheim#2436 wrote:

+1.

Almost twelve year in POE1, 9k hours over two accounts and three platforms.
Spend around 1200 dollars on POE1 and another 100 on POE2.

Your game will fail if you do not make massive changes. To crafting, endgame, maps, currency, ascendency, and melee to name a few.

Notice how I didn't mention difficulty once.

i SpEnT 1200 dOlLaRs

Spend 1200 more pls, so those of us who enjoy it can get some funding :)

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Fae_Lyth#6750 wrote:

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eldheim#2436 wrote:

+1.

Almost twelve year in POE1, 9k hours over two accounts and three platforms.
Spend around 1200 dollars on POE1 and another 100 on POE2.

Your game will fail if you do not make massive changes. To crafting, endgame, maps, currency, ascendency, and melee to name a few.

Notice how I didn't mention difficulty once.

i SpEnT 1200 dOlLaRs

Spend 1200 more pls, so those of us who enjoy it can get some funding :)

Merry Christmas, friend.

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eldheim#2436 wrote:

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Fae_Lyth#6750 wrote:

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eldheim#2436 wrote:

+1.

Almost twelve year in POE1, 9k hours over two accounts and three platforms.
Spend around 1200 dollars on POE1 and another 100 on POE2.

Your game will fail if you do not make massive changes. To crafting, endgame, maps, currency, ascendency, and melee to name a few.

Notice how I didn't mention difficulty once.

i SpEnT 1200 dOlLaRs

Spend 1200 more pls, so those of us who enjoy it can get some funding :)

Merry Christmas, friend.

you too

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Gwonam#5505 wrote:

Something a lot of people don't realize is that, once you hit the endgame, PoE2 actually is PoE1 all over again.

Yeah that's unfortunate, but at least some parts the game can actually be good.

I don't think it is feasible to have both a different campaign and a different endgame during an early access. Maps are something familiar and easy to implement, so they might be more of a placeholder than the real endgame envisioned in PoE 2. Who is to say.

This is really cringe. There isnt any feedback here. Its been 2 weeks, and its christmas vacation. The game is in early access. Give them feedback and wait. How much money youve spent on the game or how long youve played doesnt elevate you above anyone else. The amount of emphasis you put on what they owe you as a customer instead of feedback to the game is alarming. Chill out.

My reply is a drop in the bucket here, but GGG obviously IS listening for crying out loud. What does listening look like to you? Patching things? Addressing pain points? They did that, then told us they would review further after Christmas, because people have lives. The fact that no one remembers, or cares that GGG said this, that they are actual humans with families, just contributes to my sense of how selfish and gratification focused the internet community can be.

Again, GGG listened, acted and there will doubtless be a plethora of patches down the road starting in January. Until then, let's keep the sky is falling posts for some later time when the sky is actually falling!