Listening to the whiners opened Pandora's box

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alhazred70#2994 wrote:

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Mr_Vagtastic#4761 wrote:

So is GGG a competent studio capable of making your dream game or are they a company that shoots from the hip and makes decisions with no data to back it up?

Yes.




In all seriousness they quite often mix both of those. Its a mixed bag.

Then why are you surprised and complaining? If you know them so well then you know the loot changes are here to stay, so doom and gloom for what? You still have whatever games you were playing before if you can't find anything to like about this one in the reality we live in.

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Mr_Vagtastic#4761 wrote:

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Mr_Vagtastic#4761 wrote:

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TheAlmightyZugs#5016 wrote:

So is GGG a competent studio capable of making your dream game or are they a company that shoots from the hip and makes decisions with no data to back it up?

GGG is an absolutely competent studio for the type of game they have made thus far. POE 2 is a different type of game, and their decisions going forward will show us whether they are competent on multiple spectrums or only one. The decisions they have been making, show me that they are new to going in the direction they said they would be going in with POE 2 and actually sticking to it. All decisions made for POE 1 throughout it's life cycle have been made for a specific audience. Now, they have a new audience and a potential for new players with obvious overlap from the original game. But making the same decisions they made for POE 1 would be literally creating a clone of POE 1. Which is what they seem to be doing. Or at worst, creating a braindead game like D3/D4.

So if you don't like it, but it does well, they're incompetent? Got it. They don't owe any of us "sticking to" anything. We have a very different game from PoE, that still has a sub fraction of all the games you listed loot-wise. We know historically they're not going to revert the loot change. The vocal minority that wants that got outvoted. Most other changes have been nerfs. Yet you think the direction they're going is bad? They know exactly how many new players they have and were losing, their data said loot was losing too many. They fixed that and now the game is teetering on destruction? Doesn't seem like you have much if any faith.

How many times do I have to say this? Loot is different from difficulty and combat. I like the loot changes personally, and thought from launch we needed more and better drops. The difficulty needed to be matched with reward. And then they went and not only touched the loot (which is more than fine) they changed the difficulty. It's two separate topics you're trying to conflate into one to ignore the glaring issue. I know you want another POE 1 - but that's not what POE 2 was supposed to be.

And I never said they were incompetent, don't put words in my mouth. But if they go ahead and make the same calls they did for POE 1 (which they absolutely are) - then they would be incompetent at making the game they said they were going to make. What are you not understanding?

And currently - we do NOT have a much different game than POE 1, stop kidding yourself. At launch we did sure, but now we don't. Not even close.

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TheAlmightyZugs#5016 wrote:

You fail to recognize that the game has changed massively since release. I was playing, ignoring the crying and now it's so trivial that there's hardly any point in playing. My only recourse is to come on the forums and speak my mind in hopes that others will do the same. Otherwise I just have to sit and watch as the game devolves into monotony.

I am on the same side as you BTW read my sig. I hate that they've done the classic GGG knee jerk to a tiny vocal minority.

Most people are not on a forum on day 1 to 4 of a games release. The only people raging for easier gameplay are skillless non gamers who don't want their bad choices to be punished and can't recognize their bad choices because they think they are god gamers so any bad outcomes are clearly GGG and not their lack of adaptation skill or understanding of a brand new game.

"I crush endgame content with 1 button in POE how dare this new game not roll over and submit to my will instantly"

is literally the kind of player GGG just worsened the game to pander to.

BTW the same kind of player that has ruined D3 and D4 with incessant demands for everything to be easy and dumb.

If the lead guys at GGG want to march their game in the exact same direction as D4 then I can't stop them, I'll just rant against it until some uncaring mod puts me on probation or bans me for saying the truth.

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alhazred70#2994 wrote:

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TheAlmightyZugs#5016 wrote:

You fail to recognize that the game has changed massively since release. I was playing, ignoring the crying and now it's so trivial that there's hardly any point in playing. My only recourse is to come on the forums and speak my mind in hopes that others will do the same. Otherwise I just have to sit and watch as the game devolves into monotony.

I am on the same side as you BTW read my sig. I hate that they've done the classic GGG knee jerk to a tiny vocal minority.

Most people are not on a forum on day 1 to 4 of a games release. The only people raging for easier gameplay are skillless non gamers who don't want their bad choices to be punished and can't recognize their bad choices because they think they are god gamers so any bad outcomes are clearly GGG and not their lack of adaptation skill or understanding of a brand new game.

"I crush endgame content with 1 button in POE how dare this new game not roll over and submit to my will instantly"

is literally the kind of player GGG just worsened the game to pander to.

BTW the same kind of player that has ruined D3 and D4 with incessant demands for everything to be easy and dumb.

Agreed in totality. I really hope they start recognizing these things. They have to take the other fork in the road - not the same one they did for POE 1.

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Fae_Lyth#6750 wrote:

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Mr_Vagtastic#4761 wrote:

So is GGG a competent studio capable of making your dream game or are they a company that shoots from the hip and makes decisions with no data to back it up?

They are a great studio that released a great game, but caved in too quickly for 10 people who died once to a boss and immediately took to forums to complain about "difficulty" and to their ridiculous demands to change it beyond recognition, ignoring the majority of the players who were amazed by and in love with the game as is.

They gave fools too much power, and those same fools will keep coming back for more ridiculous demands now that that door has been opened.

GGG "caved in" to POE1 demands as well, and that was nothing but beneficial to the game. Beneficial meaning it retained the majority of its players while growing its playerbase. That is the definition of a successful game.

The players are not your enemies and listening to feedback isn't "caving in". You simply have to accept the majority does not want what you want (in regards to POE1 at least), and any sane game studio is going to cater to the majority of their playerbase and loyal fans. Not all, because you simply can't please everyone.

They made Ruthless in POE1, and either those who were spamming the forums with "GAME IS TOO EZ OMG KICK THE FILTHY CASUALS THIS GAME SHOULD BE FOR THE HARCORE ELITES NOT PLEBS" were a total of, what, 1000 ppl that play Ruthless, which is a VERY small minority, or you all complained the game was too easy and refused to play hard mode at the same time.

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TheAlmightyZugs#5016 wrote:

How many times do I have to say this? Loot is different from difficulty and combat. I like the loot changes personally, and thought from launch we needed more and better drops. The difficulty needed to be matched with reward. And then they went and not only touched the loot (which is more than fine) they changed the difficulty. It's two separate topics you're trying to conflate into one to ignore the glaring issue. I know you want another POE 1 - but that's not what POE 2 was supposed to be.

And I never said they were incompetent, don't put words in my mouth. But if they go ahead and make the same calls they did for POE 1 (which they absolutely are) - then they would be incompetent at making the game they said they were going to make. What are you not understanding?

And currently - we do NOT have a much different game than POE 1, stop kidding yourself. At launch we did sure, but now we don't. Not even close.

Loot changes have zero impact on difficulty. Did they add the mods "take no damage" or "deal infinite" damage to items? No? I played at launch the game was just as easy as it is now. You press dodge to avoid attacks. I made it through cruel with the old drops up until I hit a quest bug and it was a breeze after learning each boss. So what are you mad about?

Seeing more boss skill rotations adds zero difficulty. I'm sorry if your sense of personal accomplishmet is derived from rythem games, but that's all this is at it's core. See/hear cue press button to not die. I enjoy it, but I'm not delusional.

Go ladder in street fighter that's hard.

Honestly so many of you really can't comprehend the meaning of EA. The game most likely changed a lot since alpha, the game most likely will change a lot til release. There is no "listening to whiners" they work with data, if they wouldn't they would be long gone and dead instead of a rather large playerbase that grew over the years.

Thats it. Some change you like, some change you dislike, you might like how the game is it now , you might not. Both feedback is valid as long as you keep it civil and not mock others as whiners cause they not on the same page as you.

Some patch in the future will make loot even better, then some will make certain bosses harder. Then some patch will tone the loot back a bit, then some bosses get toned down a bit. A lot of skill/suppor/ascendancy will be still added too completly changing how things work. That is how balance works.

This is what you should comprehend. You dislike the change, you express it,only yours, not blanketing it as "majority" "minority" "right" etc , end of the story without creating fanficton that it must have been that so called 10 post that did this or so.

[Removed by Support]

Vision this, vision that. If Chris Wilson himself would come here personally saying that the change was to his exact vision some of you would still argue that he just lies, he was just bullied to do so cause for some mystical reason you know all ,know better what the so called vision is and that what happening at GGG.

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Mr_Vagtastic#4761 wrote:

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TheAlmightyZugs#5016 wrote:

How many times do I have to say this? Loot is different from difficulty and combat. I like the loot changes personally, and thought from launch we needed more and better drops. The difficulty needed to be matched with reward. And then they went and not only touched the loot (which is more than fine) they changed the difficulty. It's two separate topics you're trying to conflate into one to ignore the glaring issue. I know you want another POE 1 - but that's not what POE 2 was supposed to be.

And I never said they were incompetent, don't put words in my mouth. But if they go ahead and make the same calls they did for POE 1 (which they absolutely are) - then they would be incompetent at making the game they said they were going to make. What are you not understanding?

And currently - we do NOT have a much different game than POE 1, stop kidding yourself. At launch we did sure, but now we don't. Not even close.

Loot changes have zero impact on difficulty. Did they add the mods "take no damage" or "deal infinite" damage to items? No? I played at launch the game was just as easy as it is now. You press dodge to avoid attacks. I made it through cruel with the old drops up until I hit a quest bug and it was a breeze after learning each boss. So what are you mad about?

Seeing more boss skill rotations adds zero difficulty. I'm sorry if your sense of personal accomplishmet is derived from rythem games, but that's all this is at it's core. See/hear cue press button to not die. I enjoy it, but I'm not delusional.

Go ladder in street fighter that's hard.

I agree with this. I have played hours in the endgame, and it was not "difficult" in any way, but it was not fun and not rewarding at all. Only people who played in the endgame before the patch undestand this.
I got a couple of rares and some minor currency if I was lucky for each cleared map. after the patch there are lot more rares, like 4 to 5 I would say is an average number.

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fish23872#3028 wrote:

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Mr_Vagtastic#4761 wrote:

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TheAlmightyZugs#5016 wrote:

How many times do I have to say this? Loot is different from difficulty and combat. I like the loot changes personally, and thought from launch we needed more and better drops. The difficulty needed to be matched with reward. And then they went and not only touched the loot (which is more than fine) they changed the difficulty. It's two separate topics you're trying to conflate into one to ignore the glaring issue. I know you want another POE 1 - but that's not what POE 2 was supposed to be.

And I never said they were incompetent, don't put words in my mouth. But if they go ahead and make the same calls they did for POE 1 (which they absolutely are) - then they would be incompetent at making the game they said they were going to make. What are you not understanding?

And currently - we do NOT have a much different game than POE 1, stop kidding yourself. At launch we did sure, but now we don't. Not even close.

Loot changes have zero impact on difficulty. Did they add the mods "take no damage" or "deal infinite" damage to items? No? I played at launch the game was just as easy as it is now. You press dodge to avoid attacks. I made it through cruel with the old drops up until I hit a quest bug and it was a breeze after learning each boss. So what are you mad about?

Seeing more boss skill rotations adds zero difficulty. I'm sorry if your sense of personal accomplishmet is derived from rythem games, but that's all this is at it's core. See/hear cue press button to not die. I enjoy it, but I'm not delusional.

Go ladder in street fighter that's hard.

I agree with this. I have played hours in the endgame, and it was not "difficult" in any way, but it was not fun and not rewarding at all. Only people who played in the endgame before the patch undestand this.
I got a couple of rares and some minor currency if I was lucky for each cleared map. after the patch there are lot more rares, like 4 to 5 I would say is an average number.

I played pre patch and post patch and although I mislike the changes, I think GGG needs to delicately find a happy balance to make early endgame more accessible without also diminishing the combat experience in the game and having it devolve to PoE1.

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Kaboinglefop#0955 wrote:

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fish23872#3028 wrote:

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Mr_Vagtastic#4761 wrote:

Loot changes have zero impact on difficulty. Did they add the mods "take no damage" or "deal infinite" damage to items? No? I played at launch the game was just as easy as it is now. You press dodge to avoid attacks. I made it through cruel with the old drops up until I hit a quest bug and it was a breeze after learning each boss. So what are you mad about?

Seeing more boss skill rotations adds zero difficulty. I'm sorry if your sense of personal accomplishmet is derived from rythem games, but that's all this is at it's core. See/hear cue press button to not die. I enjoy it, but I'm not delusional.

Go ladder in street fighter that's hard.

I agree with this. I have played hours in the endgame, and it was not "difficult" in any way, but it was not fun and not rewarding at all. Only people who played in the endgame before the patch undestand this.
I got a couple of rares and some minor currency if I was lucky for each cleared map. after the patch there are lot more rares, like 4 to 5 I would say is an average number.

I played pre patch and post patch and although I mislike the changes, I think GGG needs to delicately find a happy balance to make early endgame more accessible without also diminishing the combat experience in the game and having it devolve to PoE1.

What do you mislike about the changes?
I think this is a good change. This is far from poe1.
I may be wrong and all, but i don't think that clearing a map should reward you quite literally nothing, because it was nothing notable that i got from most of the maps