Listening to the whiners opened Pandora's box

"

Felix44#4475 wrote:

I haven't finished the campaign yet, so far with the exception of Act 2 the game didn't seem difficult to me. But the lack of loot makes it boring as hell.

I'd be fine to have a difficulty buff to compensate, but there needs to be more loot. An ARPG without exciting loot is just depressing.

I'm running on absolute dogshit gear, and while my build is performing fine, the lack of cool items to find, upgrade and wear is a major turn off.

People like you need to understand that loot is fundamental to an ARPG. When loot is not exciting you're missing 1/3 of what makes an ARPG fun.

Being showered in loot is not fundamental to an ARPG.
I agree with you, loot systems and grinding are part of it. The key is to make things interesting.

I grind on p1 droprate even when I play d2 with a group. You know why we still get excited when a single blue monarch drops from a pack?

Because two ladders ago it finally happened -- a god damn JMOD dropped. Our first in many ladders.

THAT is what keeps a game alive for TWO DECADES. LOOT, FUN COMBAT, BEAUTIFUL ATMOSPHERE!

You can't even see any of that in PoE1! Let PoE1 be the game it became, let PoE2 become the game it can be! GGG needs to cook, if you all whined blizz north's ears off during D2 they would have never made it.

"

Felix44#4475 wrote:

I haven't finished the campaign yet, so far with the exception of Act 2 the game didn't seem difficult to me. But the lack of loot makes it boring as hell.

I'd be fine to have a difficulty buff to compensate, but there needs to be more loot. An ARPG without exciting loot is just depressing.

I'm running on absolute dogshit gear, and while my build is performing fine, the lack of cool items to find, upgrade and wear is a major turn off.

People like you need to understand that loot is fundamental to an ARPG. When loot is not exciting you're missing 1/3 of what makes an ARPG fun.

PS: stop with this childish "everyone who disagrees with me is a minority", it's such a stupid take imo. It might very well be, but until you have any shred of proof of either side you're literally making shit up. Besides, if those people really were a minority, GGG (who has far more accurate data than you do) would've probably not made any changes.

I genuinely think it's a 50/50 take at the minute. At least by posts so that to me says GGG are somewhere close to where they need to be until the data tells them otherwise but like you said, that will take time.

No one is going to be 100% happy whatever GGG do.

"

Kaboinglefop#0955 wrote:

"

Felix44#4475 wrote:

I haven't finished the campaign yet, so far with the exception of Act 2 the game didn't seem difficult to me. But the lack of loot makes it boring as hell.

I'd be fine to have a difficulty buff to compensate, but there needs to be more loot. An ARPG without exciting loot is just depressing.

I'm running on absolute dogshit gear, and while my build is performing fine, the lack of cool items to find, upgrade and wear is a major turn off.

People like you need to understand that loot is fundamental to an ARPG. When loot is not exciting you're missing 1/3 of what makes an ARPG fun.

Being showered in loot is not fundamental to an ARPG.
I agree with you, loot systems and grinding are part of it. The key is to make things interesting.

I grind on p1 droprate even when I play d2 with a group. You know why we still get excited when a single blue monarch drops from a pack?

Because two ladders ago it finally happened -- a god damn JMOD dropped. Our first in many ladders.

THAT is what keeps a game alive for TWO DECADES. LOOT, FUN COMBAT, BEAUTIFUL ATMOSPHERE!

You can't even see any of that in PoE1! Let PoE1 be the game it became, let PoE2 become the game it can be! GGG needs to cook, if you all whined blizz north's ears off during D2 they would have never made it.

I don't really understand everything you mention here since it's been ages since I played D2 and barely remember much. But if I understand you correctly, your idea of fun is grinding for a long time for that one good drop once a week? Hate to break it to you, but that is not A LOT of people's idea of fun. When a game gives me nothing for a week only to get a legendary drop on Friday, it sounds more like work than fun.

That said, I do not necessarily believe everything should be lootsplotions like in POE1. Because then ofc loot loses meaning and becomes less exciting. There should be a fine balance. That balance is, imo, missing from POE2 at the moment. The number of yellow items I have found that were actually an upgrade is exactly 1.

This makes loot boring. Now, I would rely on crafting (since that's what I do in POE1) except there is no crafting in this game and what we have is now boring, dumbed-down, dogshit RNG.

There are good things and bad things in POE2. Itemization is definitely in the bads for me.

"

auspexa#1404 wrote:

this game went downhill real fast lmao

whenever I click a stream it's some one button deadeye build running at light speed, one shotting the entire screen and getting 20 items from one big pack

idk how the game can be in such a terrible state after going through multiple closed beta tests. genuinely don't understand why they decided to separate poe 2 if it's going to be the same shit

i hope they either stop listening to the powercreep hungry cookie-clicker 1-shot farmbots, or have a ruthless mode with all the challenge and moment to moment gameplay depth that path of exile 2 was intended to have. stuff like this shouldn't be possible https://youtu.be/4amI6glez9U but we're still in early access, so there is hope.

"

Felix44#4475 wrote:

"

Kaboinglefop#0955 wrote:

"

Felix44#4475 wrote:

I haven't finished the campaign yet, so far with the exception of Act 2 the game didn't seem difficult to me. But the lack of loot makes it boring as hell.

I'd be fine to have a difficulty buff to compensate, but there needs to be more loot. An ARPG without exciting loot is just depressing.

I'm running on absolute dogshit gear, and while my build is performing fine, the lack of cool items to find, upgrade and wear is a major turn off.

People like you need to understand that loot is fundamental to an ARPG. When loot is not exciting you're missing 1/3 of what makes an ARPG fun.

Being showered in loot is not fundamental to an ARPG.
I agree with you, loot systems and grinding are part of it. The key is to make things interesting.

I grind on p1 droprate even when I play d2 with a group. You know why we still get excited when a single blue monarch drops from a pack?

Because two ladders ago it finally happened -- a god damn JMOD dropped. Our first in many ladders.

THAT is what keeps a game alive for TWO DECADES. LOOT, FUN COMBAT, BEAUTIFUL ATMOSPHERE!

You can't even see any of that in PoE1! Let PoE1 be the game it became, let PoE2 become the game it can be! GGG needs to cook, if you all whined blizz north's ears off during D2 they would have never made it.

I don't really understand everything you mention here since it's been ages since I played D2 and barely remember much. But if I understand you correctly, your idea of fun is grinding for a long time for that one good drop once a week? Hate to break it to you, but that is not A LOT of people's idea of fun. When a game gives me nothing for a week only to get a legendary drop on Friday, it sounds more like work than fun.

That said, I do not necessarily believe everything should be lootsplotions like in POE1. Because then ofc loot loses meaning and becomes less exciting. There should be a fine balance. That balance is, imo, missing from POE2 at the moment. The number of yellow items I have found that were actually an upgrade is exactly 1.

This makes loot boring. Now, I would rely on crafting (since that's what I do in POE1) except there is no crafting in this game and what we have is now boring, dumbed-down, dogshit RNG.

There are good things and bad things in POE2. Itemization is definitely in the bads for me.

You misunderstand. Let me explain.
It took me a few years of d2r launching to find a JMOD. Obviously if I played p8 it'd be easier.
But the CHASE is what kept it interesting. It's not that you didn't get any loot, it's that all the items had potential.

Furthermore, you pay attention to almost everything that drops because you can find good items that are blue, white, OR RARE. There's a lot of chase, but you dont play a week and get nothing. You always get SOMETHING. But you pay attention to everything that drops, even if there are few drops!

It's the same thing on Ruthless!

That's the point -- meaningful distributed loot and chase items. Look at PoE1 -> you ignore almost everything that drops unless you play Ruthless.

PoE2 tried the same thing, and the few loud majority in here did not want to learn a new game, they wanted more PoE1.

Look at the player trends -- Almost everyone QUITS after a week of the league. You can successfully beat a PoE1 league (chase item, ubers down) in 10 days or less EASILY! Why do we want to skip campaigns, skip enjoyment, skip the GRIND in a game by GRINDING GEAR GAMES???

People think they want tons of loot but then they filter it out. It only makes one thing more common, then something else becomes rare. It's almost comical how dumb people can be. Maybe they're just whining about feeling weak or the enemies too strong, but that's a different complaint and has nothing to do with loot.

GGG has the data and made their changes based on that. Chris boasts constantly about the data they can collect in real time. Your whining is incessant despite these facts being common knowledge.

"

Kaboinglefop#0955 wrote:

My entire guild loved the experience of getting to maps and higher levels, and were planning on doing all characters before our review.

Either way, on our latest characters we weren't even done with act 1 and had a dozen regals and exalts. Absolutely absurd.

If they do the same level of adjustment a handful more times, we will have 7 years of PoE power creep in 7 weekends.

GGG folded so hard lmao
Grinding Gear Games? More like Participation Trophy Games.
I love the idea of an act boss being to hard and having to re-farm the beautiful areas.

If PoE2 released with JUST ACT 1, I would play it for years. I love it that much. I felt the same about PoE1, I felt the same about D2. Look at my supporter badges. PoE could be the ONLY GAME I WOULD EVER PLAY! I wish with all my heart GGG will do the right thing and I can finally lay D2 to rest. They had a chance with PoE1 and blew it. Briefly revived with Ruthless.

GGG has to walk a fine line here, and given their track record with PoE1 I'm understandably anxious.

I was on here loving the game and defending it because I didn't think it was particularly difficult, offering help to those who claimed to struggle, and was straight-up dismissed.
But the sad part is, I was one of the handful, you also being a name I recognise defending the game, and there were so many people hating on it,
like what can I do.

And it was always the same, "you're a tourist anyway" (both for liking the game, and for being a new fan of the franchise), "you don't understand ARPGs", so I guess having 10 Exalts and 3 Yellows in Act 1 is the true ARPG experience that my tourist ass can't comprehend.

It is what it is.

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DetonatorLoki#3683 wrote:

"

Felix44#4475 wrote:

I haven't finished the campaign yet, so far with the exception of Act 2 the game didn't seem difficult to me. But the lack of loot makes it boring as hell.

I'd be fine to have a difficulty buff to compensate, but there needs to be more loot. An ARPG without exciting loot is just depressing.

I'm running on absolute dogshit gear, and while my build is performing fine, the lack of cool items to find, upgrade and wear is a major turn off.

People like you need to understand that loot is fundamental to an ARPG. When loot is not exciting you're missing 1/3 of what makes an ARPG fun.

PS: stop with this childish "everyone who disagrees with me is a minority", it's such a stupid take imo. It might very well be, but until you have any shred of proof of either side you're literally making shit up. Besides, if those people really were a minority, GGG (who has far more accurate data than you do) would've probably not made any changes.

I genuinely think it's a 50/50 take at the minute. At least by posts so that to me says GGG are somewhere close to where they need to be until the data tells them otherwise but like you said, that will take time.

No one is going to be 100% happy whatever GGG do.

GGG can observe many things that we can't, not just forum/reddit posts. For example, what's the average session play time for a person (maybe it can also be compared to POE1), how long they spend in each zone, what they pick up off the floor, how often they upgrade their gear and how (ground loot vs vendor vs craft), if they do side content, etc. We can only see these things for ourselves and a small circle of friends, and maybe a couple ppl in global chat.

I'm not saying people who complain are a majority (even though I do personally think at least most of the POE1 players are at least partially unhappy with POE2), just that writing opinions off as "oh, it's those weirdos that don't like this masterpiece I absolutely love" isn't necessarily an attitude that inspires productive conversation. Sometimes it's quite obvious from stats who's a minority and who's a majority. Right now it's really not.

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Mr_Vagtastic#4761 wrote:

GGG has the data and made their changes based on that. Chris boasts constantly about the data they can collect in real time. Your whining is incessant despite these facts being common knowledge.

This is also not true.

If you listen to Jonathan Rogers interviews, he recognized he could not take away the speed creep once it came. He could not give a reset once it came.

They tried in PoE1 in later leagues when they thought PoE2 and PoE1 would be a shared endgame with two campaigns, then realized they just can't make it the same game.

Once you give, you can't take. It's a problem with PoE, look even on their patch notes verbatim:
"... This is an area that we have to be very careful when adjusting because it's very hard to reduce drops if we increase them by too much."



Look at the biggest forum thread about how they dont like the game its the most active here -- it was made SO SHORTLY after the game came out that barely anybody was even in maps yet. Read the post -> they dont even bother finishing the campaign.

THAT DATA? come on.