Listening to the whiners opened Pandora's box

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Kaboinglefop#0955 wrote:

"... This is an area that we have to be very careful when adjusting because it's very hard to reduce drops if we increase them by too much."

Well...

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Felix44#4475 wrote:

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DetonatorLoki#3683 wrote:

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Felix44#4475 wrote:

I haven't finished the campaign yet, so far with the exception of Act 2 the game didn't seem difficult to me. But the lack of loot makes it boring as hell.

I'd be fine to have a difficulty buff to compensate, but there needs to be more loot. An ARPG without exciting loot is just depressing.

I'm running on absolute dogshit gear, and while my build is performing fine, the lack of cool items to find, upgrade and wear is a major turn off.

People like you need to understand that loot is fundamental to an ARPG. When loot is not exciting you're missing 1/3 of what makes an ARPG fun.

PS: stop with this childish "everyone who disagrees with me is a minority", it's such a stupid take imo. It might very well be, but until you have any shred of proof of either side you're literally making shit up. Besides, if those people really were a minority, GGG (who has far more accurate data than you do) would've probably not made any changes.

I genuinely think it's a 50/50 take at the minute. At least by posts so that to me says GGG are somewhere close to where they need to be until the data tells them otherwise but like you said, that will take time.

No one is going to be 100% happy whatever GGG do.

GGG can observe many things that we can't, not just forum/reddit posts. For example, what's the average session play time for a person (maybe it can also be compared to POE1), how long they spend in each zone, what they pick up off the floor, how often they upgrade their gear and how (ground loot vs vendor vs craft), if they do side content, etc. We can only see these things for ourselves and a small circle of friends, and maybe a couple ppl in global chat.

I'm not saying people who complain are a majority (even though I do personally think at least most of the POE1 players are at least partially unhappy with POE2), just that writing opinions off as "oh, it's those weirdos that don't like this masterpiece I absolutely love" isn't necessarily an attitude that inspires productive conversation. Sometimes it's quite obvious from stats who's a minority and who's a majority. Right now it's really not.

Just posted the same sentiment. They can literally see what server actions people sent prior to logging out and never logging back in. Someone used a bunch of transmutes, augments spent all their gold then logged out and never returned, how many people did something similar. Forum feedback from either side is not the gospel on a subjective matter like this, it's the data.

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Fae_Lyth#6750 wrote:

It seems like the "There is no loot in this game" and "Bosses too hard" crowd (most of who, I assume, haven't even played a single hour of this game, and only jumped on the complain train) has won.

I just reached the graveyard in act 1 on an alt, and have 5 Orbs of Transmutation + Augmentation each, 3 Regal Orbs and 1 Exalt Orb.

Every boss (I fought 4 until now) dropped 1-2 yellows and 1-2 blues on top of 1-2 skill gems each.

The game is even more trivial now than it was before.
Every single one of my minion one-shots trashmobs (including even the Skeletal Warriors from the sceptre), and bosses die in very few seconds.
I can't even Contagion + Essence Drain, because the entire mob pack is dead before I can click the 2nd spell.

And it's not even the reduced difficulty itself that worries me so, but the fact that they opened Pandora's box. They gave in now, but the complainers will never stop asking for more ridiculous demands each time.

Do you think they will stop here? Of course not.
It will be "still too difficult", and after the next nerf, it will be "still too difficult", because those demands weren't based on reason or experience in the first place.

This was a step in the wrong direction. I genuinely hope they revert it.

I truly hope they revert it. I came from D4 wanting a different experience and it was great. I loved loot scarcity and the overall difficulty.

I HATE loot piñata games. This is the fastest way for me to stop playing.

I've dropped 20 Exalts BEFORE the buff by the time I entered Act 3 in HC. How many do you think I am going to get now? Farming is part of the skill. These guys have no idea how to farm.

Progression was already easy before the change.

Give us a new mode.

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Kaboinglefop#0955 wrote:

You misunderstand. Let me explain.
It took me a few years of d2r launching to find a JMOD. Obviously if I played p8 it'd be easier.
But the CHASE is what kept it interesting. It's not that you didn't get any loot, it's that all the items had potential.

Furthermore, you pay attention to almost everything that drops because you can find good items that are blue, white, OR RARE. There's a lot of chase, but you dont play a week and get nothing. You always get SOMETHING. But you pay attention to everything that drops, even if there are few drops!

It's the same thing on Ruthless!

That's the point -- meaningful distributed loot and chase items. Look at PoE1 -> you ignore almost everything that drops unless you play Ruthless.

PoE2 tried the same thing, and the few loud majority in here did not want to learn a new game, they wanted more PoE1.

Look at the player trends -- Almost everyone QUITS after a week of the league. You can successfully beat a PoE1 league (chase item, ubers down) in 10 days or less EASILY! Why do we want to skip campaigns, skip enjoyment, skip the GRIND in a game by GRINDING GEAR GAMES???

Simple. Most people don't like the grind. It makes the game feel like a job, especially for those who can't or don't want to sink massive hours into a game.

I can respect the fact that you like Ruthless, I really do. But the vast majority of people really didn't. I am very happy that they made this mode so that a niche of players like you can have content they love. In an ideal world, an ideal game would have something for everyone (and that is, I believe, the major reason why POE is so popular - it has SO many different things, you're really bound to love some of it).

For example, I really love the lore of POE. If it were up to me, POE2 would have twice as much lore, and cinematics and old characters and bits of lore being tied up. But I can also understand that I am a small minority and in order to please the majority, time and money is better spent elsewhere. It makes me sad, but the decision not to include as much lore as I would like is perfectly understandable.

As to people leaving the league - I have said this SO many times but I will say it again - you have to realize some of the people here have been playing this same game for more than ten years. TEN. YEARS. That's a lot. A game cannot possibly be as exciting to you ten years later as it was when you first started playing. You get bored and tired no matter how good it is. The amount of new content is not enough to keep you engaged non stop.

I quit the league after 2-3 weeks because I've done all content, yes. But I wouldn't play for much longer even if I didn't, simply because this game, as fantastic as it is, cannot possibly keep me entertained every 2 months out of 3. You won't see many new players ending the league in a week because it takes much longer for them to get bored. But for us "oldies"? That's how the game stays fresh every league.

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Kaboinglefop#0955 wrote:

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Mr_Vagtastic#4761 wrote:

GGG has the data and made their changes based on that. Chris boasts constantly about the data they can collect in real time. Your whining is incessant despite these facts being common knowledge.

This is also not true.

If you listen to Jonathan Rogers interviews, he recognized he could not take away the speed creep once it came. He could not give a reset once it came.

They tried in PoE1 in later leagues when they thought PoE2 and PoE1 would be a shared endgame with two campaigns, then realized they just can't make it the same game.

Once you give, you can't take. It's a problem with PoE, look even on their patch notes verbatim:
"... This is an area that we have to be very careful when adjusting because it's very hard to reduce drops if we increase them by too much."



Look at the biggest forum thread about how they dont like the game its the most active here -- it was made SO SHORTLY after the game came out that barely anybody was even in maps yet. Read the post -> they dont even bother finishing the campaign.

THAT DATA? come on.

Compare that post to player numbers. Yes the data said loot sucked so they fixed it, they don't need to roll it back, it seems fine now. How many new posts are you all going to make whining about the same thing. There are like 5 of you now going in a circle. YOU DONT HAVE TO ENGAGE WITH INCREASED LOOT. PLAY SSF. If you're not planning to play SSF stop whining because you'll be buying gear and devaluing your "moral"s anyway in trade.

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Fae_Lyth#6750 wrote:

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auspexa#1404 wrote:

this game went downhill real fast lmao

whenever I click a stream it's some one button deadeye build running at light speed, one shotting the entire screen and getting 20 items from one big pack

idk how the game can be in such a terrible state after going through multiple closed beta tests. genuinely don't understand why they decided to separate poe 2 if it's going to be the same shit

A loud minority whined, and GGG gave in.

That's always been the problem with most developers, they listen to the loudest ones who are more often than not the minority and end up muddying the waters for those who were busy enjoying the swim.

I was too busy enjoying myself to bother posting before but i felt a need to come and counter some of the whining with my own. I really don't want this being poe 1.5 If i want to play poe1 i will go play poe 1 and i've done thousands of hours there.

This was meant to be something different but we are edging towards it becoming poe 1.5 if the minority are listened to.

cry babies ruin everything

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Mr_Vagtastic#4761 wrote:

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Kaboinglefop#0955 wrote:

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Mr_Vagtastic#4761 wrote:

GGG has the data and made their changes based on that. Chris boasts constantly about the data they can collect in real time. Your whining is incessant despite these facts being common knowledge.

This is also not true.

If you listen to Jonathan Rogers interviews, he recognized he could not take away the speed creep once it came. He could not give a reset once it came.

They tried in PoE1 in later leagues when they thought PoE2 and PoE1 would be a shared endgame with two campaigns, then realized they just can't make it the same game.

Once you give, you can't take. It's a problem with PoE, look even on their patch notes verbatim:
"... This is an area that we have to be very careful when adjusting because it's very hard to reduce drops if we increase them by too much."



Look at the biggest forum thread about how they dont like the game its the most active here -- it was made SO SHORTLY after the game came out that barely anybody was even in maps yet. Read the post -> they dont even bother finishing the campaign.

THAT DATA? come on.

Compare that post to player numbers. Yes the data said loot sucked so they fixed it, they don't need to roll it back, it seems fine now. How many new posts are you all going to make whining about the same thing. There are like 5 of you now going in a circle. YOU DONT HAVE TO ENGAGE WITH INCREASED LOOT. PLAY SSF. If you're not planning to play SSF stop whining because you'll be buying gear and devaluing your "moral"s anyway in trade.

I checked, the player numbers went down lol because they always do.
GGG has admitted to this trend.. majority of the peak players dont stick around with the game until a new update.

It was independent of these patch notes. You think it would have gone to 1million if they had this loot from the beginning? Get real.

There was no grind. It was great and I barely came up for air all weekend. Whiners need a dopamine detox.