PoE 2 Is For Tourists

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I knew EA means a lot of problems and a lot of fixing needed not sure what you were expecting. If you don´t wanna keep playing thats fine but there are many more people who really likes the game than people giving their insane "2 days worth of playtime review".

And these fixes and changes - for the problems you confirm are there - are supposed to happen based on what exactly?

Here's the thing: the data game automatically collects is most likely already being used by devs to find points of improvement. Like when players quit, what is the average player level in a given zone, % of a given class per platform population, what is their average session lenght is, where does their first ever player session stops, etc.

All of that is fine and all, but you still need actual player feedback to understand if some data is even 100% reflective of what players experience.

Lets say players quit in droves at the quarry zone in Act 2. You can look at that and say "aha, something is up with the zone", and part of it can be true, but that could be only a symptom. Because the decision to quit for players is not immediate and it needs to stew a bit before they make up their minds. So in reality, your player could have been frustrated from the previous zone and now that they have made it into the quarry, it just pushed them over the edge.

So in this regard, vocal players giving feedback is extremely useful for more accurately finding those real problem spots, making the game overall better for everyone, even those who enjoyed it before as is.


Now, long example aside, what you are inferring here is for people to stop providing their feedback (essentially: what they feel when going through the game), and base all iterations on data alone which might not have even been set up for some systems.
Basically, you are here advocating for not really fixing anything.

Yeah, that's a good way of putting it.

While I enjoy bosses for the most part, minus dodge rolling being utter garbage, the fact that when it's all over I get sweet bugger all, is what turns me off completely.

Times that by a hundred for everything else, and it basically sums up my experience. I just do not have the time or patience for a game that I should be enjoying, to waste my time instead.

Yeah if it was a boss grind I would get it, but there is no sense of "Exploration" when 99% of the map is unrewarding and you're just praying to find a FIFTH freaking red core so you can leave already.

Or in the canals where you have to pull like 8 levers that drain the next area and lead to another lever....

WE GET IT! LEVERS MAKE THE CANALS DRAIN! COOL!!!

Every single zone past act 1 overstays it's welcome, and exploration is frustratingly slow even if you don't think it's unrewarding.

Just so many bad decisions stacking on top of each other. So dumb.

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Gkek#1581 wrote:

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TayPoE#6379 wrote:

So you guys knew its not the same as PoE1 and still tried it out, thats good. Now in just few days of EA while you didn´t make it through campaign yet (which is normal and also fine since it needs a lot of time) you know the game is "bad"?

I knew EA means a lot of problems and a lot of fixing needed not sure what you were expecting. If you don´t wanna keep playing thats fine but there are many more people who really likes the game than people giving their insane "2 days worth of playtime review".

This is the same as giving a TV-Show which has 24 Episodes a review in Episode 1. Like you don´t even know whats coming how can you already give a fair review? You can give feedback thats appreciated but stop that hating because this game isn´t just for you.

Otherwise just play PoE1 or whatever other games you like.

People with any semblance of intelligence don't watch an entire season of a TV show just to see if it's any good lol

What a terrible comparison.

What if you watched a show and love the first season, but then the second season changed every actor, was about a different topic entirely, and changed genres?

It would be reasonable to ask, "why did they make this season 2 of that show I loved instead of a separate thing?"

The argument you are making is basically like telling me I can't say that a knife is sharp unless I test it and see if it cuts me. Experience and the ability to predict events based upon their current state and direction is a thing.

Bruh, its lost for you. You are just on a hate train, good luck out there Exile.

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TayPoE#6379 wrote:

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Gkek#1581 wrote:

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TayPoE#6379 wrote:

So you guys knew its not the same as PoE1 and still tried it out, thats good. Now in just few days of EA while you didn´t make it through campaign yet (which is normal and also fine since it needs a lot of time) you know the game is "bad"?

I knew EA means a lot of problems and a lot of fixing needed not sure what you were expecting. If you don´t wanna keep playing thats fine but there are many more people who really likes the game than people giving their insane "2 days worth of playtime review".

This is the same as giving a TV-Show which has 24 Episodes a review in Episode 1. Like you don´t even know whats coming how can you already give a fair review? You can give feedback thats appreciated but stop that hating because this game isn´t just for you.

Otherwise just play PoE1 or whatever other games you like.

People with any semblance of intelligence don't watch an entire season of a TV show just to see if it's any good lol

What a terrible comparison.

What if you watched a show and love the first season, but then the second season changed every actor, was about a different topic entirely, and changed genres?

It would be reasonable to ask, "why did they make this season 2 of that show I loved instead of a separate thing?"

The argument you are making is basically like telling me I can't say that a knife is sharp unless I test it and see if it cuts me. Experience and the ability to predict events based upon their current state and direction is a thing.

Bruh, its lost for you. You are just on a hate train, good luck out there Exile.

Yeah, you're right. This game is a loss for the people who played it and hoped it would be good.

Definitely feels like a loss. Good call.

Hey, if you get bored since acts 4-6 aren't out yet, I recommend you turn off your monitor and just press buttons while staring at the black screen. Should be about your speed.

It's not very rewarding, but it's very challenging to get things done!

Yeah, having half the weapons/skills sure limit whatever amount of builds they wanted us to try.

What could hurt GGG more is the fact that a lot of people (or most) paid for EA and have big expectations because of that. People expected a game at least as big as the original PoE (ok, maybe a bit less but still with an endgame).

I could say "It's only EA" but the game is mostly completed and in its finishing phases for the later acts and other classes/skills. I believe they can tweaks some things like the loot rate and maybe adjust some bosses attacks here and there, skills issues/glitch/balance, but when it comes to the core gameplay concept of roll dodging and walling through large maps, it's as it is.

People will judge the game based on its current form and content and sadly, there’s a lot missing. Then, those who hate roll dodge will certainly never like PoE2.

Maybe they should have waited until they had all 12 classes and every act for full release, but it wouldn't change the poor loot state and it wouldn't change the roll dodge based/action gameplay. I really don't understand how big names in the ARPG scene can fumble over something so primordial as loot quality and the gameplay loop though.

Thing is, considering how much money was invested in PoE2 so far, they have to keep players invested. I don't know how they're going to do that.

Honestly, the core gameplay is fine to me... but geez, the loot and unrewarding feeling of each boss fight is so bad that I don't think I'll go too far in the endgame right now. And slow map roaming... it's so slow, maps so big and objectives are kind of meh. They really need to address that slow feeling.

It's interesting how different the perspectives are between the in-game chat and this forum. I've noticed a lot of players in chat are really enjoying the early game difficulty and the more balanced loot system.

On the forum, however, there seems to be more concern about the changes, particularly from players with extensive experience in PoE1. It makes me wonder if those who are deeply invested in the previous game's systems might find it harder to adjust to a different approach.

Ultimately, I think diverse perspectives are valuable, and it's important to consider all viewpoints. Hopefully, the developers can find a way to balance the needs of different players and create an enjoyable experience for everyone.

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Gkek#1581 wrote:

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pyrocyborg#0256 wrote:

I'm having fun right now, but yes, I think OP nailed it with how the game feels unrespectful of our time.

I got 14 or 15 uniques, most of them since I went +60% magic find and... none of them are useful. I'm lvl 60+, and I get lvl 10-15 uniques. Then most other items are bad. I'm stuck with my lvl 35 bow because I didn't find anything better since then! Same thing for armors. Old stuff from 20-30 lvl ago. Loot is bad, it's D3 Vanilla or D4 1.0 kind of bad when it comes to "good loot" scarcity and how uneventful most unique drops felt in D3 Vanilla. In PoE2 right now, all you get is a couple of rare if you're lucky to destroy and get a shard. Yay. Wash, rince, repeat... I want some loot, not some chance at crafting it.

Now, I also wish most non spell skill gems weren't locked behind a particular weapon, but I get it for bows and crossbows I guess. There could be a variant of each projectile skill for use with crossbow and another with boss, but I digress. Thing is, it's limitative and swapping weapons adds something interesting, except for minion builds as swapping the weapon simply kills your summons.

I know we only have half the skills but I feel like there's a lot of non attack skills missing to make things really cool... and even more support gems, as there's a couple of missed opportunities there. I'm pretty sure most people using skill 1 will also choose skill 2 or 3 with it, as you're kind of "forced" into it as you cannot really mix and match almost everything as PoE let us do.

I don't know what they should do. At the very least, pimp up those good loot (less white, more rare/unique), and more orbs too. That would at least keep people engaged and up to spec while leveling. Dying because you know you're undergeardd but unable to get anything better feels bad a little bit.

As for the endgame, I'm almost there but cannot comment. Feels unrewarding if it follows the same formulae as the campaign.

Yeah if you're having fun that's great, but I don't think the fun in the game will last when builds are restricted, crafting is basically shrugging and yolo slamming and nothing else, endgame maps are still dropping mostly magic items and wisdom scrolls etc...

You are right that the most frustrating thing about it is that they totally have all the elements of a great experience, but they're fumbling it away and calling it "difficulty" when it's really just a monotonous and unrewarding game that takes too long to do everything because that is somehow more "pure"

As if that won't lead to even the players who stay gravitating to the same three builds that actually let them feel strong against white mobs and maybe clear an act 3 map in 45 minutes...

So stupid.

Judging by your profile, you haven't been around for nearly long enough to know how PoE1 evolved. If this is an alt account of yours - I do apologize for the previous statement.

You seem to be under the assumption that your previous knowledge of PoE1 is somehow going to carry you through the game. It won't. The game is not yet solved - not even close. It's been 2 days since EA hit, and while feedback is important, it's also important to provide feedback in a constructive manner. Open-ended statements of ''they have to rebuild the game from the ground up and completely change the mechanics'', aren't going to improve anything.

The power/feature creep of PoE1 over the years had devolved the game into a state where you have PoE1 open on your second monitor in the background while you do some other stuff simultaneously. You can literally create builds that make you immortal while screenclearing as you AFK. They have a done a great job with PoE2 in terms of making it more engaging and meaningful, so a great foundation is clearly there.

QoL in terms of movement should be improved, in my opinion, as I do agree with the fact that getting around the maps takes too long at the moment. Currency drop rates should also be improved, seeing as I don't feel like it feeds into allowing people to ''experiment'' with loot/crafting early on, which they said would be their goal. The same goes for item drop rates in general, as they should be higher. These are all issues that can be solved by tuning the numbers, and no major revamps are necessary to accomplish this.

Ideally, dodge rolling should give you a split second of phasing so that there's more wiggle room and getting boxed in doesn't feel as annoying, since there aren't that many movement skills in general. Again, this can be accomplished with simple number/feature tweaking.

Let's not doom and gloom the game, and keep the feedback constructive. If the majority shared your opinion, the game wouldn't be 82% in the positive on Steam. You can attribute player numbers to the hype, however, I doubt there's much correlation between hype and positive reviews, as most seem to be enjoying the gameplay, with the vast majority of negative reviews being attributed to what I mentioned above, and can easily be solved without "completely changing the direction of the game".

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Raycheetah#7060 wrote:

Pretty sure the change from PoE 2 being an addition to PoE to PoE Deuce being its own game came from "feature creep." When Chris told us at Exilecon 1 what PoE 2 was going to be, the list of actual changes to be made to the game was short. I suspect that, as time went on, there were just so many additional "cool" things the devs (I'm looking at YOU, Mr. Rogers) wanted to add that the relatively simple revamp to PoE was no longer possible while retaining the original identity of the game.

And so we got... This. ='[.]'=

Disagree. the fact that they wanted to split the games was a clear sign that the changes would be huge. Otherwise there was no reason to split. And the main change they clearly wanted were pace and difficulty. They had been tryign to slow down and harshen up POE1 for a long time and every time POE1 more noisy subfaction slashed against it. They saw it woudl be impossible to make POE1 into the game they wanted and not lose that population. So they decided to make a different game. Since they became free from the shackles the logic was to dial it to 11.

Good for them. And to the zoom zoom religious.. understand.. POE2 is your creation (and I thank you for that)

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Gkek#1581 wrote:

Yeah, you're right. This game is a loss for the people who played it and hoped it would be good.

Definitely feels like a loss. Good call.

Hey, if you get bored since acts 4-6 aren't out yet, I recommend you turn off your monitor and just press buttons while staring at the black screen. Should be about your speed.

It's not very rewarding, but it's very challenging to get things done!

Yeah right... thats 100% not what I meant. Your attitude is the problem.
Well its fine meanwhile hundred of thousands of players are enjoying the game.

Also insulting me will not help you. I´m probably a better PoE player than you are so if you telling me to and I quote you:

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Gkek#1581 wrote:

Hey, if you get bored since acts 4-6 aren't out yet, I recommend you turn off your monitor and just press buttons while staring at the black screen. Should be about your speed.

This would mean you wouldn´t even be able to keep up with my black screen! Doe probably still more rewarding than how you play the game :)

But hey might be just for you!