I already lost 50 portals to maven.

Chris Wilson literally said in an interview that they've designed this game for people looking to waste their twenties on a hardcore game. If that isn't up your alley you should ask yourself what you are doing here.

"

Baharoth15 wrote:

Chris Wilson literally said in an interview that they've designed this game for people looking to waste their twenties on a hardcore game. If that isn't up your alley you should ask yourself what you are doing here.

i was in my 20's about 20 years ago...so yeah..i guess i am in the wrong place...

"

Baharoth15 wrote:

Chris Wilson literally said in an interview that they've designed this game for people looking to waste their twenties on a hardcore game. If that isn't up your alley you should ask yourself what you are doing here.

This game doesn't feel hardcore, at least for me, just gives a false sensation of being hardcore.

If a new player makes several mistakes in a build and let's say he became very weak and needs to reposition points and let's make the assumption that he needs 40 points, what do you think would be more convenient? make another character from scratch or just have the option to reallocate the points at no cost?

besides the kitava curse the game doesn't give you any natural inconvenience.

maven forges one and makes excuses for the forged inconvenience, that's not hardcore, it's just a very weak designer.

In the battle against Maven, the degen beam will only directly affect some builds, mine for example, if I even accidentally touch the beam, I can't hit it if blood rage is on i will lose 50% of more from my hp, not a problem in any other boss of the game.

and it's its only function, now why would a mechanic that could affect all players equally punish only some builds if it was supposed to be the endgame content, everyone should face the sames things equally to overcome,

For example, whoever here has had the opportunity to play Elden Ring, it's a great game, and it has a boss called Malenia, she's an extremely difficult boss and is only recognized for that, but that doesn't make her a good boss, if removing 70% of her damage would become an easily forgettable battle.

I only managed to defeat her because I changed my build exclusively for her, if I want to do that in this game it will cost a huge amount in all aspects to the point of becoming unfeasible since i need to replay all the game level, farm.

To make it fair for every style of playing the game, would make more sense to punish all players the same way,

How would it be possible? you ask yourself I will answer you easily

Damage, you can't beat a boss without damage.

If the beam made all players deal 98% less damage instead of punishing healing, that would be a good reason for everyone to dodge it for sure.

Ranged, melee, tank, glass cannon no matter without damage you wont go far, punish all players equally thats how you make a good design.

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HunterDIII wrote:

.

Can you stop acting like you alone know what good design is when it clearly isn't the case? It would be like if someone complained they can't do reflect maps and cry about it without any effort in their part to play around it and just calls it "bad design".

Changing so you can adapt, that's exactly good design. Not mindlessly banging your head against the wall and expect something to change.

Your build can't handle being touched by the laser, so stop making excuses and don't get hit. My build can't afford either, so i just don't, and if i do get hit, i don't keep attacking, i stop and wait so i can keep dpsing. It was my mistake to get hit by a slow moving line, not bad design.

It's also impossible to punish all builds equally. They literally don't play the same, don't work the same, and will never be able to be punished the same. Want a good example of how they failed to punish min-maxers? They made it so in the first few seconds the boss has a ramping down 90% (or so) less damage taken to avoid one shot mechanics. That was useless, as people just need to wait a few seconds and the boss is able to be one shot. And for people with 200mill+ damage (such as myself), i kill any uber boss in 1 second flat, regardless of that absurd damage reduction and i also have a CoD Discharge that works just the same.

I also played Elden Ring and defeated Malenia easily with a spell build, so you can't even make a good comparison.

You clearly don't know what good design is, and should stop trying to give bad excuses as if that would realistic change anything.

Posted by
AdRonZh3Ro
on Sep 22, 2023, 5:07:24 PM
"don't play the same, don't work the same, and will never be able to be punished the same"

hell yeah U know why?

Because this game is mega IMBA as a cause of .......You know what ? Bad design ! Fail designed player skill power / player defenses / monster hp / monster affixes / map affixes it could go all day long.

Saying that You can't have all builds in game can't perfomr similar? Sorry but there were and are dozens games in genre when You can go thru ALL the content with similar power as melee /ranger or caster.

Posted by
AdRonZh3Ro
on Sep 22, 2023, 5:07:24 PM
"You clearly don't know what good design is, and should stop trying to give bad excuses as if that would realistic change anything."

If killing uber in 1 ms hoping You will execute him before he 1 shot You is good design for You then gl playing ths bs game,telling Yourself how good content is I am unistalling this abomination today !

"

AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

"

HunterDIII wrote:

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I also played Elden Ring and defeated Malenia easily with a spell build, so you can't even make a good comparison.

You beat malenia with the most broken thing in the entire game, how is that possible.

Try to kill her with a 2h hammerbuild and you will see what i'm talking about.

Its like saying that you played in easy and just cause you play and beat a hard boss on easy is good design lol.

"

AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

"

HunterDIII wrote:

.

It's also impossible to punish all builds equally

It's actually possible, they want it? nop.

As i said if you punish the enemy to play the same rules, they can't easily break then, if the beam only cuts regen, the % of builds affected by it are minimal, then target a thing all players use.

Damage, you wont go far without it, if they make the beam affect all players who enters the beam deal less 99 or even 100% less damage for the same ammount of time that would be a really good design,

so people who just pass through all the beams just to cheese the boss would get punished and people that builds requires hp, regen would be less brutally affected needing too to play the boss mechanics to be able to imput a good ammount of damage too.

A flat damage debuff of 99% affect all players the same way. if dude deals 100m damage he will redused to 1M damage for 10 seconds. in this way he will also be punished the same way as any other build, he don't have the regens needs, but the damage needs


The same would apply to tank chars, if he is really tank and can only hit for 10m that would reduce him to 100k dps, forcing him into the need to play in the same ground as everyone, he can survive but can't kill it fast.

IN LESS THAN 10 MINUTES OF PLANNING I MADE THE BEAM MORE FAIR AND CHALLENGING FOR ALL THE GAME'S BUILDINGS.

Now everyone fear the beam the same way, how the impossible turned into a possible thing.

1 don't get hit by the beam

2 it isn't possible, they can iterate and improve sure its fine to say they could have been more imaginative with their choice of penalty but you can't punish all builds equally.

Like just to highlight this point your example just massively rewards tank builds, you've removed one of their primary threats and replaced it with a debuff they don't care about.

Nobody cares about taking longer if their build is already made to endure.

In less than 20 seconds i've shown that you made the beam more biased against one archetype arbitrarily, which is kinda the MO for design as is.

"

Draegnarrr wrote:

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Exactly. The best design is to make you die easier, not just waste more time waiting for the debuff to fall off when you're still unkillable. And his premise that everyone gets hit by the beam is laughable.

"

HunterDIII wrote:

.

If you actually beat her, you know you have to play a lot better as a spell build because you're basically made of paper, so the argument of melee being "way harder" is just as paper thin.

And yeah, your idea still is a worst design. It's better as is.

"

Draegnarrr wrote:

1 don't get hit by the beam

2 it isn't possible, they can iterate and improve sure its fine to say they could have been more imaginative with their choice of penalty but you can't punish all builds equally.

Like just to highlight this point your example just massively rewards tank builds, you've removed one of their primary threats and replaced it with a debuff they don't care about.

Nobody cares about taking longer if their build is already made to endure.

In less than 20 seconds i've shown that you made the beam more biased against one archetype arbitrarily, which is kinda the MO for design as is.

If some tank builds take really long imagines with 99% less damage, an endurance focused build will also not kill that easily.

With a tank build if you deal 10m with 99% less damage you will be reduced to 100k dps for 10 sec and thats, and that is really a low damage for a boss like maven.

People with really low hp builds i see they all the time just rushing through the beams and cheesing her and making people deal less damage is biased? how?

They way it is just heavily hurts tank and regen focused builds.


So you think that a people that made a build 100% to endure be the only heavily penalized? i'm playing boneshatter if my damage is reduced in 99% the only thing that i will gain from hitting her is self high self damage.

The way it is now if i touch the beam i can't hit, the selfdamage will kill me 100%, and she keeps teleporting through the arena very often, this make me have also more risk since i need to move more.

My friend made a saboteur trapper, he have 2300 hp just pass through the beams (when needed) and one shot the boss, he don't even need to play the boss, meanwhile i have to make a perfect run everytime on 3th stage or i'm dead.

And there is a big difference in don't get caught in the beam to if i get to team beam i can't hit, cause i'm dead.

Unless the effect is different on others builds is pourly designed, only trully affects a very small % of the builds, with the risk of affecting other builds being minimal and almost non-existent.

Just change the effect of the beam to a thing that only affect one kind of build and you will undestand what i'm talking about.