Streamers are all gushing over D4 - what am I missing? It seems extremely shallow compared to POE
" Change the world tier? |
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" 100% wrong |
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" Sure... Dropping down a level or two in "traditional" ARPGs is a very common way of farming gear and XP, mostly the latter. If the gear and XP are still relevant when you change the world tier, then by all means. It doesn't really change the fact that you will still be "chasing your own tale" so to speak, as no matter how much you level at lower world tier, it will only make the on-tier content harder - as it always scale towards you. Maybe you love this. I don't. I like having a "set" world that you and your character have to adapt to, not having a world that constantly adapts to your character. But hey, we are all different. Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you.
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I guess David Brevik (the inventor of Diablo series / Blizzard North) would be partially pleased by the fact that Diablo is now kinda an isometric MMo like he wanted it to be after D2.
I'm fine with that but D4 still needs some QoL changes and updates to make it more smooth. In my opinion: - Introduce an overlay map. - Ability to skip long dialogues, when it's possible - More variation in dungeon layout and bosses. I literally fought the same 3-4 bosses in over 20 different dungeons - Lesser priority: rework the base UI and font type to make it look more like old school D2 with some nice artwork besides the resource / life globes. Masterpiece of 3.16 lore "A mysterious figure appears out of nowhere, trying to escape from something you can't see. She hands you a rusty-looking device called the Blood Crucible and urges you to implant it into your body." Only usable with Ethanol Flasks Last edited by gandhar0 on Mar 21, 2023, 9:07:40 AM
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You miss an objective view of gaming in general...
No game is bad enough for people not to try it...which shows how subjective gaming is to everyone... In a large spectrum some games scale better with some people , while some scale differently...while there is a niche that plays everything and really tends to ruin the fun out of everyone...Cuz no one wants to see "the burger there is shit don't buy it" we need more people saying "that burger in my opinion is not that great compared to x , but maybe it caters to your needs and it's more adequate to your taste buds, this is my review thank you..." Instead of just enforcing your perception you should stop and think that you are not the only person on Earth and certain other people have different tastes and enjoy different things Never invite Vorana, Last To Fall at a beer party.
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" D3 was a good game. It just wasnt a great game. If a no name company made D3, we would be singing their praises like we did GGG making PoE. Maybe not this specific subset of people on this forum, but a large portion of Arpg fans would. Matter of fact, Id argue the inverse of your argument. You grade it much more harshly because its called "Diablo" and made by Blizzard, than called "Demon Hunter" made by a GGG-type company. And a lot of people do the same. If you objectively look at D3, its a pretty solid game. Its not some all-time great game like D2, or WoW, or some other Blizzard titles, but its a solid, fun game. It just couldnt live up to the hype of its predecessors or Blizzard's past success. Its a game that is polished enough, and plays well enough with probably the best minute to minute combat/gameplay in the genre, that it would have been popular regardless. Diablo popular? Probably not. Also probably not hated as much either. Its a double-edged sword. Even now I think it still has strengths and does things better than other games in the genre, and also does things alot worse, and its arguable what the overall Arpg playerbase even considers which game is number 1 and 2. You would probably be surprised if you stepped away from this forum. It has its niche, and so does a game like PoE. At this point its not even fair to compare the 2, since PoE is a live-service game and D3 was a 2 and done vanilla/expansion combo that has the same content for 7 years now. We would need to go back 7 years to have this discussion, and we both know D3 was popping off pretty good in those days. Last edited by Destructodave on Mar 21, 2023, 9:37:56 AM
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" It's interesting because typically in an arpg, farming / efficiency comes into play. I'm sure they didn't want to get to a point where clearing lower level areas quickly was the best way to farm materials, aspects, gold, and gear. The world tiers dictate the potential gear drops you can get at endgame as well. The only downside I can see here is what do you do if you are struggling? Logically every time you level you are immediately weaker for a bit until you find upgrades. I could see how that might not feel great. Beyond changing to world tier I, or getting rng lucky, I could see progression getting a bit tricky. No one wants to min / max during the campaign. Well maybe some do, but not most. Anyways I'm not so sure in general that its a bad thing once we get to the endgame. It means every area in the world will be relevant. That seems like a good thing to me, and also avoids the one issue I dislike most when a game gets an expansion. Which is that the "new" zone is all that matters, and the rest of the world is irrelevant. D2 tried this recently with "Terror Zones" where entire areas were at endgame item level & power. I thought it was really good. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln Last edited by DarthSki44 on Mar 21, 2023, 10:26:28 AM
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" I agree on most of your points here. I do absolutely judge it much more harshly because I see it as a shadow to its predecessor. It's clearly a fun game for a lot of people and even "solid" in a lot of areas. And "we" may very well have sung its name and praised it if it was made by a smaller developer. But I very much doubt it would've sold that much more than PoE, Last Epoch, Grim Dawn or whatever. And that was my point: Using numbers numbers to make any other point than "popularity" is flawed - at best, when we more or less know that the name of the franchise and the advertisement/attention that comes with it, is a MAJOR factor in those numbers. You even touch upon it yourself: "Its not some all-time great game like D2", but the total sales were much higher than Diablo 2. My point: Using sale numbers as some kind of argument towards measuring quality is flawed - at best. Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you.
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" "Tricky" isn't the word I would use. "Stale" would be more fitting. Do your character actually feel better and more powerful as you level up? Do you actually FEEL the progression of your character through the progression systems and not just gear? Or are the progression system just a "catch-up mechanic"? This is what PoE and a few other ARPG do very well: At level 1 you feel weak - at level whatnot you feel strong based on the choices you've made along the way - as the game lets you overlevel if you want, and that you're able to scale speed, AoE and whatnot from the get-go, through the passive tree, gems and other sources depending on the game. This is probably where the paragon boards come into play. Do we know if we'll be able to play around with them in the next beta? " This is where I would ask: What makes a game an ARPG and what makes a game an MMO? Because based on leveling, progression, world bosses (raids?), open/shared world and so on, Diablo 4 check more MMO boxes than it does ARPG boxes, at least based on how I've learned to define the genres. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing; I'm not saying MMOs are bad. I just don't see why they have to force this on a ARPG franchise. I guess this is what players want. Which is sad for an old timer like me. Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you. Last edited by Phrazz on Mar 21, 2023, 11:38:38 AM
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what streamers saying or influencing dont bothers me
i tried beta and i liked it alot i left feedback on their forums etc, nn to create drama here |
