Streamers are all gushing over D4 - what am I missing? It seems extremely shallow compared to POE
" I gave you Blizzard published numbers. They launched, sold copies, and subsequently continued to sell copies for over 10 years to get where we were at in 2022. How is your gut feelings, or specific goalpost shifting like "ACTIVE" or concurrency relevant in a pay to play game? The debated point that was being made was that D3 was carried by the specter of D2. While I grant some of that was true initially at launch, it had no bearing on the continued sales for a decade after that. You simply cannot dispute that. It's illogical. That said, you can certainly have your own opinions and feelings based on emotions, but you have no facts to dispute what was said / written. Nothing was debunked here. It's not like I wrote the articles, or made statements on behalf of Blizzard. You are literally creating your own sequence of events based on emotion, with nothing solid to back it up. So yeah you are living an alternate truth here that D2 carried D3. It had some to begin with, but not overall in D3's lifespan. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
- Abraham Lincoln |
|
" If these forums have taught me anything, it's that total numbers mean nothing, and it's all about retention and returning players (or so it seems, when everyone and their grandmother are posting steam chart pics). Are there any numbers out there regarding that? How many players show up each ladder, and how many remains after 2, 3, 4 weeks? Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you. Last edited by Phrazz on Mar 20, 2023, 6:24:52 PM
| |
" That's true Phrazz. What was being debated was that D2 influenced D3 numbers, which was true at launch, but wasn't for the 10 years after launch. That's all we were discussing. Retention, Concurrency, and other metrics are important, don't get me wrong, they just were not relevant in this specific case. Edit: In fact there have been a number of people who never played D2 that played D3 "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln Last edited by DarthSki44 on Mar 20, 2023, 6:30:47 PM
|
|
" ...So no numbers there, I'll take it. The rest of the discussion here, we've been through before. You're a numbers guy while I'm a romantic, judging games by how I feel about them, not how other people feel about them. That said, Diablo 3 was objectively a massive success when it comes to numbers. No one can really debate that. So was the 2011 movies "Smurfs" and "Hangover II". No one can debate that either. What we can do, is debating the quality - and how good we think those movies are - regardless of numbers. Anyhow, as I said; we've been through this, so I'll just stop. Diablo 4 will probably be a massive success too. Most of my post is probably not worthy of a response, so I'll end it with a simple questions where you have to use some subjective assessment/speculation instead of relying on numbers: You view Diablo 3 as a very good, standalone product. How well do you think it would've sold if the exact same product was called "Demon Hunter" and made by a small, Croatian company? Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you.
| |
" Im good here. This horse is glue, and we have definitely hashed this out. D4 and PoE will be fine. For the sake of this thread. D3 seven or eight years post launch was absolutely standing on it's own. It passed through a generation of gamers, many of whom never even played D1 or D2, or had any concept of the franchise beyond the publisher. That's just a fact. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
- Abraham Lincoln |
|
|
This is the first itteration of the game we're looking at.
Did anyone here remember how the first itteration of PoE was on release? People complain about D4 looking repetitive. Remember when PoE only had 5 acts and you did Dominus runs in act2 to farm items? Diablo4 looks infinitely better at start than PoE did. PoE has had 10 years to constantly add new content like the Atlas, Maps, Bosses, League mechanics et.c. which is why the game is so deep. D4 will be fun because it's new. Sure, the endgame will probably have osme flaws but the game will still be fun unless the only thin you're trying to do is look for a PoE copy. And just like with PoE, every 3 month or whatever the timer is Blizzard will start a new season with new content adding to the endgame, itemization and systems. We're looking at a really primitive base game right now. It will undoubtly add more depth down the line. Blizzard have even mentioned how things like Runewords and Set items were cut for release and are going to be introduced in future seasons when they believe they can get them right. |
|
|
Streamers are paid to gush all over games. They are just like PC Gamer etc. They get paid to get out good PR. They play the games they are paid to like good little monkeys and say nice things about them. Never trust a streamer who streams for a living as they will not bite the hand that feeds them most of the time.
| |
|
From what I played, D4 actually looks extremely promising. I'm cautiously excited. Obviously the endgame loop will make our break it.
Graphically this game looks nuts. Streams don't do it justice at all. It's hands down the best looking arpg I've played. Being a live service game, Blizzard is very incentivized to make good content for seasons, just like poe is. Group play actually works well and is very fun. We didn't get to test it but there's actual pvp, with real rewards. Should be a blast. Combat and minute to minute gameplay felt very good. I was actively using and trying to min max all 6 of my chosen skills. Rare items are king again, so gear is going to be far more varied then say D3. There's implicit stats and affixes I found interesting. You've got your basic crit chance and attack speed, but there's also damage or defense to close / far enemies, skill group damage, plus to specific skills or all skills, damage to a specific thing like cc'd or vulnerable, damage type increase, sockets ect. There's also not just critical strikes, but overpower damage, and lucky hit damage that seems to be used for proccing specific things. The endgame currently seems like a mixture of being in the world, with pvp, legions I think they are called, world bosses, whispering tree quests, and world events. And then farming the ~150 nightmare dungeons with increasing difficulty. What's awesome is being in the world isn't just a bunch of instanced campaign areas you blast through and then you sit in town / hideout and only run instanced content. It actually feels like D2 on hell mode does; you're playing in the whole seamless game world. And you get a mount, which is dope. I think between all the item affixes, legendary affixes, however unique and ancestral items work, skill tree choices and paragon board choices, there's actually going to be a good amount of depth in character building. Especially if you play in a party or solo. It's not perfect, and who knows maybe it'll all fall apart. I for one can't trust blizzard. But yea currently it looks like it could be a very fun game. And this is without set items or runewords, which will be added later. Edit; I say actually too much lol Last edited by Bleu42 on Mar 21, 2023, 12:53:40 AM
| |
" This is the scary part in an ARPG. You can never 'overlevel'. You can never be 'underleveled'. You can never drop down to a lower level zone to farm, as there is no lower level zones. Almost every time you level up, monsters will get more numbers than you will, because they scale based on your level. Even ITEMS affixes scale based on your level, and you are forced to find the same items over and over again to 'update' your affixes. But hey, you get a "dope" mount ;) Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you.
| |
|
Player power is only ever -+10% from level 1 to 100 zzzZZZzzZ
Last edited by AmpegV4 on Mar 21, 2023, 3:57:49 AM
|
