Streamers are all gushing over D4 - what am I missing? It seems extremely shallow compared to POE

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Khallis wrote:

play the first 20 levels of POE ONLY and tell me the deep gameplay it has.

quit being a fanboy bot.

You do realise there are multiple, end game, leaked videos of L100 gameplay right? Nearly everyone is saying the game is pretty much the same the entire way through, with copy pasted assetts, low mob density, and poor end game. It's 3 months till release - aka it's finished.

The argument "bUt ItS oNlY thE fIrSt 25 LeVelS" is completely void when the end game is already leaked, items are already leaked, the gameplay loop is leaked. Do your research first pls.

The beta is showcasing their best, and most polished work, it doesn't get any better.

Everything is too balanced, skills nearly all do the same thing, for the same damage, using the same attack patterns reusing D3 assetts. Trash.

The moment they start being "professional", its the moment the opinion of someone dont really matters anymore, be it a newspaper critic, a review website, or a streamer

Being sponsored means you have to gush over the product no matter how crap it is. Its not just a streamer thing or a videogame thing, it just how the concept of sponsorship works. The moment you accept money from a company, you have an obligation, even from a moral perspective, to uphold your end of the bargain

Tons of streamers recieve money from various developers to pretend they enjoy a game or to make some gameplay footage on their channel, its really no different from how many developers quite openly buy high score reviews from big review sites. And sadly, nobody can forbid dumb people from dumping money on something just because some streamer pretended to love a bad game

And its not just gamers, when Oprah say anything mildly positive about any random garbage, that alone garantees it will sell. Much of mankind is made of morons, sadly

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DarthSki44 wrote:

That's the thing. It isn't PoE. That's the selling point. You don't need spreadsheets, PoB, a crafting website, etc..

I think sometimes dedicated PoE folks just don't really understand how much this game is player hostile, for all it's strong points. The fact that you can just chill and play the game is a massive selling point. It's not for everyone, but likely, more appealing overall than PoE to the average gamer. Thats a huge market.

That said D4 the beta wasn't all sugar and rainbows. The story was great so far, I'm sure the campaign will be a banger. We don't know anything about endgame really. The skill tree, for the sample we saw, was pretty simple. (many under NDA are saying late game WAY better for builds/skilling)

The itemization was interesting. A good mix of rares / legendary item hunting and mixing / matching. The crafting was super easy to understand, and was limited due to material cost. It's hard to know if the legendary drop rate was increased for the beta, because it did seem like alot. I think they wanted to get some data both on rate, and progression, for them.

All in All, for a Beta, this was a good showing. Is it perfect? Nah.

Now now, being objective will fry the brains of GGG fanboys/girls/bots.

nothing

its an mmo
most streamers are mmo players as well

im not
so i prob wont play it
i like arpgs

d4 is not an arpg

I played thru the beta on a sorc and got bored on second playthru on a rogue. At least d3 had some new classes to add to that franchise. Necro.. again. The irony.

Also for the love of god don't go on the d4 forums. They will sap your iq.

Diablo 4 actually has a fun gameplay - while this piece of shit is a click simulator.

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Nevzat wrote:

"

Khallis wrote:

play the first 20 levels of POE ONLY and tell me the deep gameplay it has.

quit being a fanboy bot.

You do realise there are multiple, end game, leaked videos of L100 gameplay right? Nearly everyone is saying the game is pretty much the same the entire way through, with copy pasted assetts, low mob density, and poor end game. It's 3 months till release - aka it's finished.

The argument "bUt ItS oNlY thE fIrSt 25 LeVelS" is completely void when the end game is already leaked, items are already leaked, the gameplay loop is leaked. Do your research first pls.

The beta is showcasing their best, and most polished work, it doesn't get any better.

Everything is too balanced, skills nearly all do the same thing, for the same damage, using the same attack patterns reusing D3 assetts. Trash.

leaks? have you seen leaks in the past? LOL as i said stop being a fanboy. you haven't played the endgame so you don't know what is all planned.

if i watched a video of POE endgame where streamers are going around clearing the toughest maps at zoom zoom speed i would think POE's endgame is easy and shallow too.

but i don't think that because i experienced it an i'm not an ignorant fanboy.

Is poe really that deep?

https://poe.ninja/challenge/builds

Pick a skill and look at a few builds. They are all almost exactly the same. Meaning most of the people on the ladder are not making builds or using any of PoE's depth.

You just sorta pick your ice cream flavor and follow the guide and thats mostly it.

"But it can be deep, I make hipster builds"

Thats cool, good for you. It doesnt seem to be the norm based on available data.

Your not wrong, the vast majority just copy and paste a build guide. The community actually steers new players to do this.

That's the modern gamer for you, they want to win and be "elite" and will always google / copy guides to "win" at the game. Look at other genres, almost all games include wall-hacking as a spammable native skill. Can't have gen-z possibly losing or failing in a videogame, everyone must be a winner.

My criticism for GGG is they balance the game knowing players will google and copy build guides and the 5 flavour of patch meta-skills. Same reason the GGG is cautious to balance pass those skills, they do it (and usually nuke them entirely) but they always leave them 3-4 leagues before they do it. Then this is the bulk of the player-base, makes sense.

The games what you make it.. I'm 1500 hours HCSSF, can reliably make L90 with just about any skill combination every league. Never read a guide, never done Uber bosses etc. the game has tons and tons of longevity for me.

Disclaimer: Comparing to PoE early campaigns at this point as D4 does not let us test endgame.

Once I got the hydra skill D4 campaign running felt like running through PoE campaign, just with nicer optics.

Gear so far was straight forward and simple, if it stays like this too simple. But unlike PoE you actually find some Legendary Items which makes you try other builds which PoE doesnt or even locks you out from via regret orbs. (this is actually something GGG could look into like give free respec until you beaten first Kitava so new guys can actually try out stuff)

Skill three, well it is more likely a skill branch and feels very limited. As a fire Sorc there was not much to chose from until I was 20+ and had the points to fuck around more.

Baked in dodge/movement skill is a nice idea but would have been better if every class had a unique one instead of basic roll.

Early Dungeons felt same'ish, while there was plenty they all felt the same and it feels like I fought the same dungeon boss like 5 times. And the layout... if PoE I would do the map once and ignore it.

So far not bad but I can't judge because it will stand and fall with Endgame Systems. If they are engaging and the loot is worth grinding for it may be a alternative if you are fed of from PoE's epic trading experience and the need to use TFT if you want to not kill yourself when buying stuff for big crafts.