I tried the D4 Beta. I think PoE is going to be just fine.

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gageris wrote:

I didn't like that I can't overlay big map on my screen like in PoE. Also left click is just bad - you can't have force move/interact/pick-up all at once, like you can in PoE.

Complaining that there isn't some giant map that blocks your entire screen while playing is so weird to me. I suppose some people like that, but really it's better for the game experience without it. Thats just past arpg trauma of it existing to begin with. Perehaps they could improve the mini-map zoom feature in the corner as a compromise.

And on force move in PoE... fml 99% of people put molten shell, vortex, a golem, etc.. there so its just an extra passive skill on the bar, its not even used as "force move" most of the time.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Complaining that there isn't some giant map that blocks your entire screen while playing is so weird to me. I suppose some people like that, but really it's better for the game experience without it.

Oh, the hypocrisy is strong in this one. Who's "anti player choice" now? If "some people like it", isn't it then better for their gaming experience? A choice here would be the best thing, as it's - in no way - connected to balance or the speed at which you play the game; no matter the choice, you're not at a disadvantage.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

99% of people put...

And this is just BS. I never play without force move on left click, and I think most of the people I watch, play with and know do the same, at least on 'most builds'.

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Phrazz wrote:

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

Complaining that there isn't some giant map that blocks your entire screen while playing is so weird to me. I suppose some people like that, but really it's better for the game experience without it.

Oh, the hypocrisy is strong in this one. Who's "anti player choice" now? If "some people like it", isn't it then better for their gaming experience? A choice here would be the best thing, as it's - in no way - connected to balance or the speed at which you play the game; no matter the choice, you're not at a disadvantage.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

99% of people put...

And this is just BS. I never play without force move on left click, and I think most of the people I watch, play with and know do the same, at least on 'most builds'.

A serious case could be made that a map overlay could be advantageous in this sense, so if it's optional, it's a game experience differentiator, not qol, or accessibility. I disagree with you there.

And if you don't personally apply a passive skill, like most do, to your move button, that's an intentional gimp. I mean you could also play without chest armor to move faster, which ok, you do you. I have not seen a single streamer play this way, which obviously doesn't represent everyone, but whatever. So if you want to get me on unverifiable hyperbole of 99%, sure, you win the forum game today.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

And if you don't personally apply a passive skill, like most do, to your move button, that's an intentional gimp. I mean you could also play without chest armor to move faster, which ok, you do you. I have not seen a single streamer play this way, which obviously doesn't represent everyone, but whatever. So if you want to get me on unverifiable hyperbole of 99%, sure, you win the forum game today.

Now I'm interested in seeing a poll on this, I don't like putting a skill on left button either.

In his video on D4, Kripp says that melee sucks big time and Barbs are not worth playing. Ranged players have all the advantages. Sounds familiar. I'll give the beta this weekend a try as a barbarian anyway. I'm not optimistic.

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raics wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

And if you don't personally apply a passive skill, like most do, to your move button, that's an intentional gimp. I mean you could also play without chest armor to move faster, which ok, you do you. I have not seen a single streamer play this way, which obviously doesn't represent everyone, but whatever. So if you want to get me on unverifiable hyperbole of 99%, sure, you win the forum game today.

Now I'm interested in seeing a poll on this, I don't like putting a skill on left button either.

You are moving either way, so why not get a passive buff? Why wouldn't you, unless you didn't understand that's it both force move and the skill activation? (Note not every skill functions this way as lmb)

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DarthSki44 wrote:

A serious case could be made that a map overlay could be advantageous in this sense, so if it's optional, it's a game experience differentiator, not qol, or accessibility. I disagree with you there

I don't think it's a disadvantage, if you prefer, are used to - and want to use the world map/mini map. It's all about what's the best choice for you, personally. Thumbs up for player choice, I'd say. You're clearly against player choice (:D)

And are you going to claim that "balance/advantage" was even in your mind when you made your initial argument against an overlay map?

"

I have not seen a single streamer play this way...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHq8GQqIB4Y - first Mathil video I clicked on. Move only on left click.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km5c7ZQuUFY - first Ziz video I clicked on. Move only on left click.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPSX9mx2FLo - Ben...

Want me to find more? Lets just be real here, "99%" was a bit off, and so was probably "most" too, right? AT least you have the choice in PoE. Player choice is good, no? Again with the hypocrisy.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

You are moving either way, so why not get a passive buff? Why wouldn't you, unless you didn't understand that's it both force move and the skill activation? (Note not every skill functions this way as lmb)

Because buffs have a cooldown, and you want to use them when it matters? I'm not saying no one is using guard skills on their left click - and I'm not going to pull percentages out of my ass here (not even word like "most" regarding all players either), but it heavily depends on the build and situation.

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Phrazz wrote:

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

A serious case could be made that a map overlay could be advantageous in this sense, so if it's optional, it's a game experience differentiator, not qol, or accessibility. I disagree with you there

I don't think it's a disadvantage, if you prefer, are used to - and want to use the world map/mini map. It's all about what's the best choice for you, personally. Thumbs up for player choice, I'd say. You're clearly against player choice (:D)

And are you going to claim that "balance/advantage" was even in your mind when you made your initial argument against an overlay map?

"

I have not seen a single streamer play this way...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHq8GQqIB4Y - first Mathil video I clicked on. Move only on left click.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km5c7ZQuUFY - first Ziz video I clicked on. Move only on left click.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPSX9mx2FLo - Ben...

Want me to find more? Lets just be real here, "99%" was a bit off, and so was probably "most" too, right?

The overlay is an advantage, being able to see the map, move, see your health & mana UI, and see mobs vs without it, in a comparable sense.

Even though it's worse visually from a presentation standpoint (which it think is why D4 made it that way), its advantageous in a gameplay situation. I'm glad it's designed this way personally. I wouldn't say that its qol/accessibility because of the direct game impacts.

And the force move with passive skills not every video/stream will have it in there (its level dependent, and perhaps build dependent if the build is gem starved).

Anyways I don't want to die on this hill, you can have it. I will concede. If you don't want to use a skill passively with literally the exact same functionality as force move, I think it's a poor decison, but go ahead. There is no logical reason not to. (Unless you can't fit it in the build gem wise)


Edit: and it's not just guard skills

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raics wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

And if you don't personally apply a passive skill, like most do, to your move button, that's an intentional gimp. I mean you could also play without chest armor to move faster, which ok, you do you. I have not seen a single streamer play this way, which obviously doesn't represent everyone, but whatever. So if you want to get me on unverifiable hyperbole of 99%, sure, you win the forum game today.

Now I'm interested in seeing a poll on this, I don't like putting a skill on left button either.

Unless I have an instant skill I don't care about timing for, I definitely just use it for movement. More often than not, I care about the timing of the instant skills so it's usually allocated to movement.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

I think it's a poor decison

Which is the beauty of player choice and freedom. If ALL choices are equal, your choice doesn't really matter. But if you're free to make a choice that may be objectively 'worse', but is subjectively good for you based on your preferences, that's a good thing.

The problem is when one choice is gimping you. And I don't really feel like putting force move on left click is gimping me. I usually have more than enough buttons available on my builds to effectively use what I need to use when I need it. Choices.