Is Flagellant's "Gain 7 Charges when you are Hit by an Enemy" flask mod OP?

Is this flask mod and/or the interactions too strong? I havent played the game for quite some time and have the strong impression that there was a lot of munchkin power creep going on. If this would have been several years ago - I would have said yes but so I am not sure. I still think its at least in terms of investment vs benefit out of line with most other defensive options though.

There are various somewhat distinct use cases. They can be combined - although not optimally:
1. Strongest use case but also has the highest investment cost: Pathfinder/Ascendant-Pathfinders "Recover 6%/4% Life when you use a flask". This allows instant 30% / 20% recovery of life upon getting hit by an enemy.
2. Use on life flask for "always up" flask-life-recovery against hits. (*)
3. Use for keeping up utility flasks. Somewhat like a low cost Mageblood.

Note that Hiltless reflection appears to be considered "Hit by an Enemy". This means you can get 30% life recovery per hit against an enemy that way as a Pathfinder. Dont know if other sources of Reflect (like the map mod) also count. If yes - then on a reflect map you should get healed by hitting enemies even if you have >= 100% reflect damage reduction as it should still be considered a hit (with 0 damage).

The first use case Pathfinder recover 6%/30% upon getting hit can probably be somewhat compared with Gladiator %life on block. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Not sure how the costs compare.


(*) Edit: Just found out that life flasks cant be triggered. So its only useful on life flasks for getting charges which is probably working as intended.
WRONG: This also kind of is a workaround for the missing "use when only 85% (or whatever) of life remains and not already in effect" enchantment. So the usage part of point #2 (due to there not being such flask enchantments) is IMO something which makes the game better from a design perspective.


Some links:

Pathfinder Hiltless facetanking 10 invitation bosses:
https://old.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/comments/r4w84u/selfreflect_pathfinder_looking_for_more_damage/

Pathfinder version:
https://old.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/comments/r1du5o/flask_on_hit_pathfinder_resists_from_flasks/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffGslODtGAM&t=430s
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3208433/page/1

Not sure which use case:
https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/ram5p9/flagellant_flasks_with_use_when_full_and_aegis/

Use case keep up flasks:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3197023/page/2#p24376221
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3210322/page/5#p24420425
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3210322/page/6#p24421814
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3200984/page/5#p24393899
https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/ri3tdc/path_of_exile_316_afk_the_feared_inquisitor/
https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/rhqn4z/poe_316_afk_uber_atziri_with_budget_build/

olroths charge + flaggelant iron flask is also op on champion.

iron flask makes your ward refresh/break, you gain adrenaline. champion gets 25% life when you gain adrenaline

Comment in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffGslODtGAM&t=430s by https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZgd-ppOvtk40emowkGsbyg

"

This was my gauntlet build. Rank #1 pf. I switched out of it from explosive concoction to keep it secret. I knew someone would figure it out eventually. Also if you're low life the flask mastery gives you an additional 10% per use.

This is similar to other reddit comments I have read about players trying to keep this a secret to prevent nerfs.
(Far as I understand the flask mastery +10% cant be automated though as it only applies to life and hybrid flasks.)

The flask charge on crit variant was nerfed with an internal cooldown in the past and has a cooldown to this day.

This will get nerfed with a cooldown too pretty sure.

"

zzang wrote:

The flask charge on crit variant was nerfed with an internal cooldown in the past and has a cooldown to this day.

This will get nerfed with a cooldown too pretty sure.

They may then want to look at "Removes Elemental Ailments when you use a flask" which looks approximately useless to me if Flagellants gets a cooldown. And similar "Removes Bleeding when you use a flask". The only saving grace I currently see for those two is the interaction with Flagellants: You get hit and the automated flask then removes the ailments from that hit. But if that no longer works(*) "Master Alchemist" could be removed and it wouldnt change a thing. Without that interaction "Master Surgeon" also looks rather weak although not as bad as "Master Alchemist".


(*) I am assuming this works like that but dont know for sure.

The Pathfinder 6% version appears to be more widely used. See:

https://streamable.com/0az2ir

https://old.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/comments/rqvgn1/sharing_spreadsheet_to_help_with_master_surgeon/

Didnt see anything in the Game Balance Manifesto for next League https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3228807

And there is also this statement

"

We don't have any defensive nerfs planned for 3.17 at this point, other than the two mentioned under the 'Unique Item' section of the balance manifesto.

https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/sbw7qo/game_balance_in_siege_of_the_atlas/hu2odv0/

it wont be in the 'defences' part of the manifesto, check the 'bs abuse mechanics that are getting removed' section

the 'broken' parts are Mageblood (it is just silly) and Pathfinder's immortality

7 charges, even on a melee build hardly matters because you are full while clearing anyway and empty when bossing regardless

MAJOR UPDATE:

"Master Surgeon" is now (in 3.17) available for Deadeye & Raider too - for the cost of 2 jewel slots.

Source: https://www.pathofexile.com/siege under "Powerful New Uniques Items".

Edit: And Pathfinder can get it the new way too.

"

sidtherat wrote:

it wont be in the 'defences' part of the manifesto, check the 'bs abuse mechanics that are getting removed' section

Not sure what you are saying: You have found a reference to this or you expect them to communicate removal of this mechanic per patch notes?

the mod stays

the ascendancy node that makes zero sense - also stays

poison concoction stays as well

elsusive stacking - yep, that too


what a list of 'questionable' choices :/