75% less flask charges is insane

I run a CI Necromancer, a Golem Scion and a Storm Call Elementalist - the last two have so little life they may as well be CI. I almost never get frozen on them. When I do, I drink from my Panicked Hybrid Flask of Heat.

How do I not die? For one... Nuke off the edges of the screen with the storm call elementalist in open field. I also have a totem to taunt for tight spaces. I cast it inside doorways and narrow passages where I can't get LoS. Then I destroy them with zero effort.

With the minion characters, I steer my minions in front of me - you have noticed they run where you curse, pop bodies or cast - yes? I can steer my entire necro horde and 7 golems around corners with ease. It's trivial to keep them in front of me with offerings. They constantly run towards the offerings. Convocation to pull them back if I need them on me.

CWDT I use Immortal Call + Icewall + Phase Run on all three characters.

Oh and on my Ice Shot Archer, I use the two Mirage arrow skills as a decoy when I get mobbed. When you are phasing the monsters almost always ignroe you and go for your Ice Golems and illusions. Also great for for the door pileups in Heist. Labby reflection gloves are also slick when coupled with phase run CWDT.

You have lots of decoy options to draw enemy fire when you can't just erase them off-screen.

During abyss league, my storm call elementalist was getting horribly mobbed too much - so I put Vaal summon skeltons in one of her jewel sockets. Completely un supported. When the abyss mobs started to voerwhelm me, I popped Vaal summon skeletons. That minion cloud would then give me pleanty of cover to blast down those curse immune/ele-resistant/leeching GD bats.

Decoys are valuable. Crowd control is valuable. Lots of those skills go unnoticed in favor of blowing everything to bits in 4 seconds. It appears GGG would rather that most people start exploring some CC options.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

theyre not shitting on their community, they are fixing their game. the plaster is coming off, it needed to come off, you know it, i know it, theyve ripped it off and have time to refine things before poe2. the funding will still be there because they are making the game better.

flasks were broken, you just need to get over it and stop pretending this change wasnt necessary and obviously in the pipe for years.

this is just the crit nerfs all over again, or the aura nerfs... omg but the game is balanced around us having every single aura in the game on every character i cant believe it theyre destroying everything... then the patch came and the difference was hardly even noticeable in practice. everyone just got on with it.

hey snorkle hows it going man !

glad we're agreeing on something :)

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grepman wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

theyre not shitting on their community, they are fixing their game. the plaster is coming off, it needed to come off, you know it, i know it, theyve ripped it off and have time to refine things before poe2. the funding will still be there because they are making the game better.

flasks were broken, you just need to get over it and stop pretending this change wasnt necessary and obviously in the pipe for years.

this is just the crit nerfs all over again, or the aura nerfs... omg but the game is balanced around us having every single aura in the game on every character i cant believe it theyre destroying everything... then the patch came and the difference was hardly even noticeable in practice. everyone just got on with it.

hey snorkle hows it going man !

glad we're agreeing on something :)

Wanted to follow up on this change being in the pipes for years.


Absolutely nothing GGG has ever indicated before this was that they were going to make a massive system change. Even someone that has an "in" tarke had absolutely no idea a change was coming.

I think its not been well thought out and I think the changes they are doing are counter-intuitive to the design or purpose of the flask themselves.


Again, I'm focused heavily on the 75%, which wasn't mentioned in the manifisto, so maybe that was just a rough estimate or out of date information, but if the patch notes indicate that much, enjoy the shitshow of not having flask charges when you need em.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

dude the game is trivial from day 1 act 1 of a new league and pretty much stays that way. i havent even bothered trading properly in leagues since Rampage league because the game is such a joke. i remember clearly day 3 of rampage i was instakilling map bosses and my characters gear was exactly the same level as the gear i was using on standard at the time, i was playing tornado shot or some kind of bow thing. i turned around to the guild i was in back then and said ppl this games just a complete farce theres no difference in even playing leagues now from standard, you got 2 days and you are back on standard again in the league and they agreed. thats when i stopped even bothering to trade properly in leagues and mostly self found gear. ive played almost every league since. some have been overtuned for sure, but theyre not implemented in the state they launched in.

exactly this, which is why I play standard.
I prefer the nerfs, and increased party play.
would be great to see endgame coop campaigns too.

no point to play league unless u want challenge rewards, and even then I just quit league once I get them.

So no mention in the patch notes that I could see and support characters are completely unnerfed.

so many complaints are from players who have completely lost the ability to assess the enemies laid out in front of them. Or because they started playing in 2017-18 they never even had that ability to begin with. There was a time when the point of rare monsters was that you had to actually read the mods they had and run away if they had a mod that was dangerous, or face them with different skills (running different skills to avoid reflects etc.). I remember needing a specific 4L skill to offset the weaknesses of my main skill for general mapping against random rare monster mods.

GGG is attempting to bring back the importance of paying attention to PoE, rather than going around blindly spamming skills and spamming flasks and melting everything.

The biggest problem though, is that GGG is not changing mob density or danger. They don't seem to realize that its practically impossible to have the time to read mods, or react to thousands of monsters piling every known ailment all at once.

We need a color coding system on monsters...cold damage monsters glow blue, lightning glow yellow, etc. There is SOME of that on certain mods but not enough. Now with map mods where monsters can get every element, every ailmeent, etc. was why ailment immunity was so necessary and popular.

Until GGG starts to change the actual gameplay, nerfs are simply not enough. The power creep is NOT just on the player side of things!

Regarding flask charge nerf: I think 75% reduction in flask charges is perfectly reasonable. In the current game, I can literally kill a single pack of monsters and get back to full charges in almost all content. That's a little ridiculous. I also think that, once you get into the rhythm and learn the new mechanics 75% reduction is going to be practically unnoticeable in the grand scheme of flasking. You just won't be 100% immune 100% of the time anymore which is perfectly fine.

I also find it interesting that GGG is choosing not to document the numbers of the change, if Chris hadn't said anything we wouldn't know at all. Even then Chris statement could be off, we just don't know.


Path notes should have the numbers behind it.

Imagine if it was just full of, we've adjusted X or Y. But you dont know which way or how much.

I rolled 5 stash tabs of flasks today. Chemists of Ironskin/Reflexes/Adrenaline-a-palooza.

For the remainder of time until patch, I'll be running regular Atzeri with the loot filter off so I can hover up more bottles.

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dyneol wrote:

Yes. That's the idea. Deal with it.

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Its going to make any non ranger class likely feel like absolute trash to play.

It's always the exact same complaint.

Click, Move, Click, Move is not fun gameplay.

How about you not tell other people what to feel and what to enjoy and not enjoy?

"It's always the exact same complaint"
Maybe you should stop and think about why that is then.