75% less flask charges is insane

Yeah... these are selling as rapidly as I can manufacture them:



I've bought a stash tab full of Quicksilver and Diamond, and I'll be rolling them with Surgeon's "Of the Order" and "Of Adrenaline" and then stock-piling them for a while to see where the market goes.

Price is going parabolic and there is a good chance I can cash in on this in a bit.

"

TorsteinTheFallen wrote:

Game was balanced around having 100% flask up time while mapping.

no it wasnt, mapping is easy, you dont need 100% flask uptime or anything remotely close to that. sid is right for the most with what hes saying about how unnecessary flasks were. if you made them necessary because of the way you built ur characters then learn to build them differently.

i never bothered flask pianoing anything and i almost instantly kill everything in maps without ever feeling in danger on pretty much every build thats properly geared. you have to play self found to get any kind of challenge out of maps in the game now days and its been that way for many years.

"

goetzjam wrote:

Poe 2 is a year or far more out. You absolutely need money in the meantime to keep developing the game, so why shit on your community so hard in the meantime. Slowly move towards the goalline, rather then making a mad dash and then having no one left to support you in the meantime.

theyre not shitting on their community, they are fixing their game. the plaster is coming off, it needed to come off, you know it, i know it, theyve ripped it off and have time to refine things before poe2. the funding will still be there because they are making the game better.

flasks were broken, you just need to get over it and stop pretending this change wasnt necessary and obviously in the pipe for years.

this is just the crit nerfs all over again, or the aura nerfs... omg but the game is balanced around us having every single aura in the game on every character i cant believe it theyre destroying everything... then the patch came and the difference was hardly even noticeable in practice. everyone just got on with it.

Now I'm also rolling a tab of Adrenaline thanks to the kindly soul who just sold me a window of Quicksilver. :)



Watch closely now folks. I'm giving you a master's course in how you make money. Not running insanely loaded maps until your finger's gnarl into arthritic claws.

You sell things TO those people. Preferably legacy variants. At vastly inflated prices.

I will easily turn 3k alteration orbs into a couple of mirrors over this.



Note: "Diversify your portfolio" - Also remember to mix the flask type up - the Surgeon's will be the most popular, but hedge your investment - get some Chemist's and Ample and Flagellant's and Perpetual in there. The market is always fluid. Be diversified and have enough Stash Tabs to take advantage of the changes.

GGG will be nerfing more and more things every league from now leading up to poe2 incrementally decreasing the power of the player to get the entire games power creep to a more manageable state.

this is only the beginning.

some things might be a little scuffed here and there in the meantime but it will make for a better game in the end.

lets be real... to do T15+ maps most builds can easily screen clear with a single click at around 500k-1mil dps no flasks (100% delis aside but they are meant to be hard AF)
now allot of the meta builds scale way WAY beyond that, 10mil to 20mil+ some even over 50mil or more.... allot of them can largely do this because of 100% flask uptime where you build for max damage possible and rely on flask uptime for all your defences. Flasks may as well be passive stat sticks with the current design which isn't good.

its currently soooo overkill that the design of monsters and bosses is completely meaningless when you can kill them in 1 hit and bypass any mechanics it just becomes skilless and boring.

they are never going to fix the top1% pf players destroying everything they look at while there's still other items like headhunter.
but these nerfs are a step in a good direction and I hope they keep reeling the power back every league before poe2.

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

this is just the crit nerfs all over again, or the aura nerfs... omg but the game is balanced around us having every single aura in the game on every character i cant believe it theyre destroying everything... then the patch came and the difference was hardly even noticeable in practice. everyone just got on with it.

It absolutely isn't just QQ about general nerfs. Every character in the game uses flask, not all to the same degree, but all do use it.

So you must ask yourself why 75%, which they didn't even bother to mention in the development manifesto less charges in maps was necessary in conjunction with the increased charge usage on almost all flask and the reduction in power on flask as well.


You say or many people say you can clear t16 maps without flask, I say, you aren't doing juiced up maps then, any damage mods or interacting with any league content added in the past 2 years then.

Simply put, your going to die and there is nothing you can do about it, because the game has nerfed every defensive system in the game patch after patch, without consideration.

*For those of you saying just don't get hit or build more defenses, there really isn't an option to outrange encounters that lock you in a circle or that have monsters that will 1 shot you offscreen if you aren't able to see them windup any attack (legion for example).

You can look at a class like trickster which can be heavily defensive and think hey it didn't get nerfed its still good. But when you consider how much it lost from the flask changes, it got absolutely gutted.



Like I said in the OP, they could have removed every offensive flask in the game, they could have implemented the auto flask stuff, hell even nerf the flask themselves, but to reduce the charges to an extreme harder then the current red tier map mod globally for maps, will absolutely make the game feel like shit on way too many characters.


But it doesn't matter for some of you, there is no convincing you. Some of you play standard and have legacy shit you use and are all for making the game harder, while you use legacy mods that trivialize the game. While others of you don't bother to get high level, xp grind doesn't matter, you just progress characters into red maps and give up before completing any hard content. And very few of you actually do all the content in the game for the most part and don't likely understand what this change actually means for general mapping.


I'm just going to laugh when GGG makes no changes to the current less flask charges gained map mod. Are you going to agree with them there? A mod that gives you less then 50% of 25% of the current value of flask charges? (keep in mind map mods are increased by bonuses)

"Well you just have a map mod that gives you no flask charge regen then, but that wasn't the intention of the design, now was it?

"

goetzjam wrote:

You say or many people say you can clear t16 maps without flask, I say, you aren't doing juiced up maps then, any damage mods or interacting with any league content added in the past 2 years then.

without perm flasks, absolutely. with occasional flask use that will not really be changed by these nerfs but actually made easier because the couple of times per map you needed to flask out of a freeze etc will now be automated.

"

goetzjam wrote:

But it doesn't matter for some of you, there is no convincing you. Some of you play standard and have legacy shit you use and are all for making the game harder, while you use legacy mods that trivialize the game.

dude the game is trivial from day 1 act 1 of a new league and pretty much stays that way. i havent even bothered trading properly in leagues since Rampage league because the game is such a joke. i remember clearly day 3 of rampage i was instakilling map bosses and my characters gear was exactly the same level as the gear i was using on standard at the time, i was playing tornado shot or some kind of bow thing. i turned around to the guild i was in back then and said ppl this games just a complete farce theres no difference in even playing leagues now from standard, you got 2 days and you are back on standard again in the league and they agreed. thats when i stopped even bothering to trade properly in leagues and mostly self found gear. ive played almost every league since. some have been overtuned for sure, but theyre not implemented in the state they launched in.


youre kidding yourself that what you are getting from flasks you cant get just by putting more care into building some defences and then back it up by using your flasks in the situations where they are actually needed. its not very often, you dont get offscreened by a legion encounter without first starting a legion encounter, you know its there, you know you activated it, you know where you released what mobs. this isnt release day order of the frozen sky instakilling you without any warning.

"

goetzjam wrote:

I'm just going to laugh when GGG makes no changes to the current less flask charges gained map mod. Are you going to agree with them there? A mod that gives you less then 50% of 25% of the current value of flask charges? (keep in mind map mods are increased by bonuses)

Honestly, I'd be surprised if they changed it, if they estimated 25% of current flask gain to be the appropriate amount for clearing maps normally, then halving that should be fairly impactful but not impossible. As map mods should be. Their point is, after all, to make maps harder, not to trigger "lol, didn't read". Currently we have mods that are all over the place, weak mods, strong mods and cockblocker mods, it's just another mod in the 'strong' bin, nothing more.

Just for the record, I'm perfectly fine with a portion of the content being there for the top 0,5% of characters and players. Dunno where the idea that fully juiced sextanted delirium maps and maven-shaper-elder-uber-dantemustdie encounters should be for everyone is coming from. They're there pretty much just to show you how badly the game can fuck you up if it wants and for those that go "Ohrly? Challenge accepted".

I don't really care too much about flask nerfs except when it comes to stuff like getting frozen. With no more ailment immunity from certain ascendancies we will have to rely on flasks when we get frozen.

I remember how the game was in 2013 to 2015. Back then the only way to stop yourself getting frozen was with flasks. So everyone would just have an antifreeze flask up all the time. However even then, there were mechanics where you had to stop and do stuff and also pick up loot etc. So flasks wouldn't be up 100% of the time.

These days there are a lot more things that you have to stop and do. So there are many more situations where flasks will run out and you'll get frozen and die. Even if it happens once in 100 maps, that's still a lot if grinding to lvl100. It's going to be painful getting frozen and dying again. I remember how bad it used to be. I used to quit for weeks/months after such deaths.

If you're getting walloped by freeze...

1: Don't facetank mobs you know freeze on casters.

2: Be ready with your freeze flask on strongboxes... you do identify the strongboxes... right?

3a: If you're a melee, and dying to freeze, wear this if you're poor:


3b: If you're a melee, and dying to freeze, buy some rare gear if you're rich.

3c: If you're a melee, and dying to freeze, and have time to invest, harvest enchant the ailment resist onto you jewels. It took me about 100 hours or so of running harvest every map to harvest craft move speed on all of my jewel implicits, and the ailments seemed to me to be much more common rolls.

Most freeze issues can be avoided by not running face first into mobs of the monsters that do it on archers and casters. Melees have to take steps. Casters with short range spells have to take steps.

"

Sabranic_SilverDeth wrote:

If you're getting walloped by freeze...

1: Don't facetank mobs you know freeze on casters.

I don't know what types of builds you play, but it is impossible to always dodge/avoid being hit. Without immunity you will get hit and frozen and die at some point if you play enough. Especially CI builds which I mainly play.