75% less flask charges is insane

"

goetzjam wrote:

The base changes, as in basalt not giving pdr instead of armor now, will likely be a global change, so yes your flask will be changed. The charges gained will also be global applied, which means your pretty much in the same spot as temp league characters.

i hope it works more like item nerfs that become legacy and leaving existing items unchanged

Such a drastic change leaves no room for legacy flasks, taking into account standard leagues exist.
Gonna be retroactive nerf, I may bet on it.

Yeah, when the function of an item gets changed, legacy mods won't save you.

However, the "Surgeon's flask" mod might be a work around for the flasks that can have it.

The players seems to think so - and I base this on the fact that I have sold almost 2 pages of Surgeons flasks in the last few days... both legacy variants and New rolls I made with "of the order" as a suffix. The legacy ones have been sitting around at 1-25ex for years now. Nobody has so much as sniffed at them until Thursday.

It's no coincidence they're selling I suspect.

"

goetzjam wrote:

So flask are just something you might have up, might not. Who needs utility or defense from flask, right?

My very personal take on the issue, is that if a game allows you to have your flasks up all the time I'm calling that dumb design, and if it's also expected of you to do it that's doubly dumb.

However, removing the ability to do it isn't really a problem in the long run, because if it turns out we're actually unable to play without perma flasks they can just buff the player or nerf the monsters and it's all fine again. Sure, things might run a bit squeaky at first but it isn't something they can't fix, after all, it's just numbers.

This is just the beginning. It's going to get much much worse.

"

raics wrote:

"

goetzjam wrote:

So flask are just something you might have up, might not. Who needs utility or defense from flask, right?

My very personal take on the issue, is that if a game allows you to have your flasks up all the time I'm calling that dumb design, and if it's also expected of you to do it that's doubly dumb.

However, removing the ability to do it isn't really a problem in the long run, because if it turns out we're actually unable to play without perma flasks they can just buff the player or nerf the monsters and it's all fine again. Sure, things might run a bit squeaky at first but it isn't something they can't fix, after all, it's just numbers.

we are capable of playing without flasks. but 'we' have to accept it means halving our damage and makes certain aspects suddenly important again:

- freezes
- bleeding/CB
- curses (to lesser extent)

ive been doing endgame (including sirus et al) without flasks for years. why? because i play meme builds that cannot 'drop' endgame bosses in one round of flasks anyway

but i could do - without much problems - do deli maps, sirus, semi-deep delve, lvl83 cata, various 10way invitations etc.

what IS going to suck is no more perma quicksilver and CB jewel corruption gets 100% mandatory


if a build cannot do maps without flasks then it is not a build but a disaster. (excluding 100% flask focused pathfinders - i sense big changes to this class anyway)

"

sidtherat wrote:

we are capable of playing without flasks. but 'we' have to accept it means halving our damage and makes certain aspects suddenly important again:

- freezes
- bleeding/CB
- curses (to lesser extent)

ive been doing endgame (including sirus et al) without flasks for years. why? because i play meme builds that cannot 'drop' endgame bosses in one round of flasks anyway

but i could do - without much problems - do deli maps, sirus, semi-deep delve, lvl83 cata, various 10way invitations etc.

what IS going to suck is no more perma quicksilver and CB jewel corruption gets 100% mandatory


if a build cannot do maps without flasks then it is not a build but a disaster. (excluding 100% flask focused pathfinders - i sense big changes to this class anyway)

Sure, my point was just that they most certainly aren't intending to run a game only a small portion of current playerbase can (or want) to play. If it's unfeasible to play comfortably without flasks they can always compensate the player in other ways, maybe through pantheon.

"

raics wrote:

"

goetzjam wrote:

So flask are just something you might have up, might not. Who needs utility or defense from flask, right?

My very personal take on the issue, is that if a game allows you to have your flasks up all the time I'm calling that dumb design, and if it's also expected of you to do it that's doubly dumb.

However, removing the ability to do it isn't really a problem in the long run, because if it turns out we're actually unable to play without perma flasks they can just buff the player or nerf the monsters and it's all fine again. Sure, things might run a bit squeaky at first but it isn't something they can't fix, after all, it's just numbers.

If you are clearing the map fast enough and have decent packsize there is no reason why your flask CANT be up all the time. You need to consider that this game has a number of encounters inside of maps that take time to spawn where you will be without flask potentially and it absolutely will kill you.

Legion anyone? Harvest? I guess you just port out before these encounters to refill on flask. That seems boring as hell.

If they want to reduce flask charges that much, but give us some other way to fill them up before important encounters that would be a cool tradeoff I guess. Like clicking on any of these league encounters fills your flask, maybe put a shrine before boss rooms that allow you to refill as well?

The thing about buffing player later or nerfing monsters, is that happens too late. Balance patches happen every 3 months. So if they overnerf this league, its going to be completely unfun to play.


So what I'm really asking for is them to reconsider the 75% nerf to charges gained, considering all the other flask changes they are doing in the same patch. If need to they can always make it the 75% if flask are still a problem post patch, but if they overshoot and playerbase falls off the cliff, then what options do players have.

In addition we are getting damage nerfs across the board and every league comes with more and more defensive nerfs. Everyone knows POE is a 1 shot or be 1 shot style game, nerfing us while making monsters smarter or faster isn't going to help us when we have no flask to push.

And if the players solution is to TP out to refill before league encounters and shit, then what real purpose does the reduction serve besides annoy the shit out of players and give us more hardcore rip clips where streamer press flask button and doesnt have charges so instantly dies.

Just play Pathfinder this league. Then you won't have to worry about it until next league, when Pathfinder gets nerfed.

It is rather funny that they release Flask attack skill and only viable class to play it will be basically Pathfinder because no other class will be able to sustain shit :D