75% less flask charges is insane

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goetzjam wrote:

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Chalace2 wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

for anyone else you maybe throw some of the currencies on it and just pray it is up for when you need it.

No praying needed... you can literally make them so that they ARE used exactly when they are NEEDED.

The conditional ones for that just don't make any sense, you are saying its ok because it will trigger when you are frozen. But that means you need to have not used it to mitigate fire damage you were expecting to take in the first place.

Because you are still in the mindset of flask piano 100% uptime.
Think of them as a defensive cooldown.

Instead of having to spam 5 flasks every 5s like before. You can now just not... and it will proc when you need it. I fail to see how that is bad.

Absolutely no one cared about the 20% less fire damage before, they were used solely for ailment/curse immunity.

Also, the charge generation is still more than adequate. If you are using up 10's of flasks and not killing enough to at least get 10 back, well...

Meh... I think the old system of permanent flask uptime was far more insane than this.

Flasks were far beyond an acceptable power level. They're still insanely powerful.

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goetzjam wrote:

Imagine thinking that the changes that GGG intended for the game are good just because you can profit off of them in 3 years.

No, I like the changes they made to flasks because I think it's a good balance decision, and will make the game better. And, the fact that I get to enjoy some lucre off the folks who must have the absolute best of everything, is a side bonus.

PS: Won't take me three years - I've already sold a couple of the 15ex Surgeon's Of the Order.

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Chalace2 wrote:

Because you are still in the mindset of flask piano 100% uptime.
Think of them as a defensive cooldown.

Instead of having to spam 5 flasks every 5s like before. You can now just not... and it will proc when you need it. I fail to see how that is bad.

Absolutely no one cared about the 20% less fire damage before, they were used solely for ailment/curse immunity.

Also, the charge generation is still more than adequate. If you are using up 10's of flasks and not killing enough to at least get 10 back, well...

So flask are just for ailment and curse removal now? Screw the original intention for them?


Reducing damage of an element is a key strategy for some players, RF players for example want to use the ruby flask in order to gain more regen and damage mitigation against fire damage as a whole.

Just because you only use flask as a simple solution to a problem, doesn't mean that is their only function.

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tackle70 wrote:

Meh... I think the old system of permanent flask uptime was far more insane than this.

Flasks were far beyond an acceptable power level. They're still insanely powerful.

Are they when you consider everything?

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goetzjam wrote:

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tackle70 wrote:

Meh... I think the old system of permanent flask uptime was far more insane than this.

Flasks were far beyond an acceptable power level. They're still insanely powerful.

Are they when you consider everything?

Given that having a particular flask up is often the difference between staying alive and dying, I think it's pretty obvious that they are...

This topic sort of proves the point. The only reason people are complaining about charges is because flasks are so insanely strong that there are times when you feel compelled to keep them up or you feel like your build is bad. This is because they've been so out of control OP that the community at large has been used to using flasks as a crutch to prop up their build both offensively and defensively with nearly 100% uptime.

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goetzjam wrote:

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Chalace2 wrote:

Because you are still in the mindset of flask piano 100% uptime.
Think of them as a defensive cooldown.

Instead of having to spam 5 flasks every 5s like before. You can now just not... and it will proc when you need it. I fail to see how that is bad.

Absolutely no one cared about the 20% less fire damage before, they were used solely for ailment/curse immunity.

Also, the charge generation is still more than adequate. If you are using up 10's of flasks and not killing enough to at least get 10 back, well...

So flask are just for ailment and curse removal now? Screw the original intention for them?


Reducing damage of an element is a key strategy for some players, RF players for example want to use the ruby flask in order to gain more regen and damage mitigation against fire damage as a whole.

Just because you only use flask as a simple solution to a problem, doesn't mean that is their only function.

Obviously there are exceptions. Tho i cant think of any besides RF benefiting from a bit of fire mitigation.

But again, nothing is stopping anyone from keeping up a fire res flask. It might drop off once in a while, just like it could have before... but there are a plethora of other 'solutions' to negating a little regen you can use.

Bottom line in, flasks were silly, they have been for a long time. Scrambling for the 1 or 2 situations that need tweaking because of a change is just a poor argument.

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tackle70 wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

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tackle70 wrote:

Meh... I think the old system of permanent flask uptime was far more insane than this.

Flasks were far beyond an acceptable power level. They're still insanely powerful.

Are they when you consider everything?

Given that having a particular flask up is often the difference between staying alive and dying, I think it's pretty obvious that they are...

This topic sort of proves the point. The only reason people are complaining about charges is because flasks are so insanely strong that there are times when you feel compelled to keep them up or you feel like your build is bad. This is because they've been so out of control OP that the community at large has been used to using flasks as a crutch to prop up their build both offensively and defensively with nearly 100% uptime.

Or it feels bad when the solution to certain problems also happens to integrate itself into a system that got massively nerfed?

I think a true rework would have seen something else occupy some of the flask charge slots and provide benefits without consuming the charges they are so included to reduce.

Would actually open up more options, currently the system is you either benefit from the flask charges being up an clearing fast enough or you tp out to refresh pots.

Ultimately, if they wanted flask to be a sometimes buff, then they should have implemented another system of recharging them, rather then doubling down on packing the maps with monsters to refill them with and zoom zoom.

I had to pick up multiple flask nodes to maintain my oldschool flask piano. It's still possible, but at a high investment cost.

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Chalace2 wrote:

Obviously there are exceptions. Tho i cant think of any besides RF benefiting from a bit of fire mitigation.

But again, nothing is stopping anyone from keeping up a fire res flask. It might drop off once in a while, just like it could have before... but there are a plethora of other 'solutions' to negating a little regen you can use.

Bottom line in, flasks were silly, they have been for a long time. Scrambling for the 1 or 2 situations that need tweaking because of a change is just a poor argument.

O idk, any build that is fighting any fire based boss in the game?

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But again, nothing is stopping anyone from keeping up a fire res flask. It might drop off once in a while

75 less charges seems a bit more then "once in a while", try running a 50% reduced charges gained map after the patch.



I agree, damage flask were 100% silly, I agree with nerfing them, hell I think they could have removed them. But utility didn't need nerfed so hard on top of punishing slower builds and characters by reducing the flask charges gained by so much.


One of the top post on reddit was, "im still pianoing my flask" Probably because the system is fundamentally flawed. You still want the buffs, its just a matter of packing enough monsters in the maps, flask charges gained and zooming if you can sustain that or not.

I guess theoretically the new currency allows for some nice uptime vs bosses.



I never really understood the complaint about people needing to press buttons in the video game. Its not uncommon for many games to have things you press either on CD (like diablo 3) or to keep them active.

When you think of something like a guard skill in POE, you know it has a set cooldown or downtime so you plan around activating it. The new flask system is hopefully my flask are up when they are needed. Especially if you put some auto trigger shit on it that could easily consume the flask charges. Saw a mod that consumes on movement skill use, I can't even think of a single build that would want that enchant, but GGG has to make it more difficult for people to get the ones they want I guess.


But the system needs far more then tweaking, it needs to be completely redesigned. GGG has an opportunity to do so, but saying "flask are reworked" was extremely misleading. They function the same, without charges they do nothing.


GGG could do a number of cool things in the space. Introduce charms that take up flask slots, but provide passive benefits.

Make flask provide passive benefits, even if they are out of flask charges.

Introduce rare flask to make damage unique flask have more to compete with.

Introduce the flask recharge system like how the system in the royal works, so slow builds aren't punished and so cramming massive amounts of monsters in a map isn't required.