75% less flask charges is insane

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

I mean they even doing some weird shit like making cast when damage taken require mana spent? So builds that reserve just the right amount of mana for skills or almost all mana and use something like soultaker can't use cwdt without corrupting some jewels or something? Seems insane if you ask me.

If their build doesn’t function anymore then they clearly haven’t reserved “just the right amount of mana”, they’ve reserved the wrong amount of mana. Patches requiring people to adjust the way they play isn’t insane, it’s normal.

I see you've never played a soultaker build.

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heedkid wrote:

Such a weird forum thread for me to read. Since closed beta ten years ago only build out of 50+ i used to flask piano with was vaal sparker. Getting 95lvl+ every league and using flasks for bosses and league encounters only. Why? Because playing with two hands is bothersome. Not trying to boast, just saying that there are plenty of builds now which overkill content without any flasks.

And yet the solution for people will to move to those builds and only those builds to avoid times where you have either no defensive boost or no offensive boost.

Lets limit the game even more in scope of what builds are good.



Also idk how you can say the thread is weird, the solution that GGG is going to force players to do is to TP out of the map to refill charges on a number of builds because they will 100% run out and the work around is clunky as hell.


I guess the bonus is with people needing to TP out constantly they will have no problem doing the trades they've been putting off.

oh cmon.

noone is going to TP to refill their flasks while clearing, nooone. it is such absurd notion i wonder where from does it come?

'people' wont see a f.. difference regarding their offence. it doesnt take a genius to see that 8 projectile PS clears just the f.. same as 10 projectile one. same with 25% vs 35% ele pen (wise oak off/on)

people pretending it makes a difference.. like wtf are you guys playing? map clear is trivial nowadays, on any non-shit skill, my strike budget builds dont need flasks to clear modded red t16 so you should manage with your much more meta builds



defensive.. yeah, so here it hurts. some will have to drop a million or two and spec into some defences? drop some clear speed?

maybe right about time? i bet this is the goal. so people have to actually budget their gear/passives for defensive. right now you actually dont have to - flasks have you covered.

it was difficult to respect POE as a game when a shit build could survive because of 1234, 1234, 1234, 1234 done ad nauseam



there are problems with this change - flasks like Sorrow of the Divine, 'the Perfect Agony flask', and other similar 'weirdos' are DEAD without HEAVY changes. but map clearing? like WTF cares about flasks while clearing?

oh, and quicksilver.. if EVERYONE uses it and keeps it at 100% uptime.. maybe it is time to bake more movement speed into the base stat and drop this flask?

but map clear? TP out to refill flasks? lol

I don't think I have played build where I would need flasks defensively on bosses.

I mean, most boss encounters are "don't get hit" on softcore so it is often better to just grab 3 offensive flasks to your quicksilver and quartz, outsourcing staying alive to regen/life & es on hit/leech

Defensively flasks are more useful in clearing due to the insanity called "visual clarity" in PoE - absent.

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Marxone wrote:

Defensively flasks are more useful in clearing due to the insanity called "visual clarity" in PoE - absent.

Clearing and engaging with league content. Last two - Ritual and Ultimatum were all about staying alive in the small space with monsters spawning all around. Have fun with a build that is low on phys reduction, block, or chaos res. Flasks were very much needed in such cases, even if only 3-4 sips at a time, but I do admit it was a cheap solution to weak defense.

The problem might be that the gear required to fix those flaws in defense will be too rare (or too expensive if you want to trade) for quite a few build archetypes to even exists beyond theorycraft.
That is, of course, if GGG insists on throwing every player into meatgrinder type of league content every single time and keeping the old content as is.

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noone is going to TP to refill their flasks while clearing, nooone. it is such absurd notion i wonder where from does it come?

You are before bosses, before legion or other league encounters and a number of other reasons. Simply put league content hurts and your not going to want to fight without flask.

General clearing, probably not.

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defensive.. yeah, so here it hurts. some will have to drop a million or two and spec into some defences? drop some clear speed?

And when players do this they go around after the patch and destroy those mechanics. Every single time players do exactly this, invest into defenses and try and make a more rounded character GGG decides those defenses are too strong and destroys them. VMS anyone? Block, ect.

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oh, and quicksilver.. if EVERYONE uses it and keeps it at 100% uptime.. maybe it is time to bake more movement speed into the base stat and drop this flask?

Its long been time to do that, only builds that spam movement skills don't care about it and even some that do still benefit from it (like shield charge).

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people pretending it makes a difference.. like wtf are you guys playing? map clear is trivial nowadays, on any non-shit skill, my strike budget builds dont need flasks to clear modded red t16 so you should manage with your much more meta builds

And you are forgetting they are making mobs faster, so you arent going to be able to run away without your quicksilver flask. You say just dont get hit LUL, but then the game is taking away your resource to not get hit.


Again, I don't care if they nerf offensive flask out of the world. But defensive flask and general utility flask are really important to be able to have reasonable access too. We don't even see the full scope of the nerfs but we know 75% and that with what we do know in conjunction is the absurd part.

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respon wrote:

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Marxone wrote:

Defensively flasks are more useful in clearing due to the insanity called "visual clarity" in PoE - absent.

Clearing and engaging with league content. Last two - Ritual and Ultimatum were all about staying alive in the small space with monsters spawning all around. Have fun with a build that is low on phys reduction, block, or chaos res. Flasks were very much needed in such cases, even if only 3-4 sips at a time, but I do admit it was a cheap solution to weak defense.

The problem might be that the gear required to fix those flaws in defense will be too rare (or too expensive if you want to trade) for quite a few build archetypes to even exists beyond theorycraft.
That is, of course, if GGG insists on throwing every player into meatgrinder type of league content every single time and keeping the old content as is.

If you expect GGG to reduce the damage or clutter of those encounters, they absolutely aren't going to.

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Friagram wrote:

Except I played the game and bought it myself, with my own currency.
Anyway, 1-2mdps is 1-2m dps.
FFS watch the shaper video and just see how long it takes us to kill the trash before facing shaper.

You could get much better dps than I am outputting with a death's opus and a 5 link. A budget bow build will easily net you 10m+ dps. Hell, builds with elemental hit will land you 30-50m with little investment.

Perhaps this is the problem. You kids think the gear makes you good, and it doesn't. Even with my zomgallmirrortiergier, atziri still 1 shots me. You have to dodge the stuff.

I could just normally kill her in 1 barrage before she does a single attack and bypass the entire fight, which is stupid.

The point is you what you've showed doesn't prove anything.
I doubt how much damage you have.
You have casual 130% movement speed without flask.
You have ordinary instant leech.

I've done hundreds of UE fights, enough to know what a torture it is to attempt it with 2 mill dps. It's no fun, especially when you lose the set and UE is one of the best fights.
Sirus 8 will make players rage quit.

I've played Phoenix with Maven Minotaur the other day on a average build with 5L. It was a goddamn disaster. Mino made rocks falling in whole arena, Phoenix under 1/2 life with lots of birds shitting on me. I wouldn't be able to finish it even with 10 portals.
But hey, lots of people here consider that as fun experience...

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goetzjam wrote:

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

I mean they even doing some weird shit like making cast when damage taken require mana spent? So builds that reserve just the right amount of mana for skills or almost all mana and use something like soultaker can't use cwdt without corrupting some jewels or something? Seems insane if you ask me.

If their build doesn’t function anymore then they clearly haven’t reserved “just the right amount of mana”, they’ve reserved the wrong amount of mana. Patches requiring people to adjust the way they play isn’t insane, it’s normal.

I see you've never played a soultaker build.

I see you like to deflect. The game has changed constantly since its inception, making effective builds means adapting to that. Complaining that it's "insane" that old builds aren't optimal anymore is absurd.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

I see you like to deflect. The game has changed constantly since its inception, making effective builds means adapting to that. Complaining that it's "insane" that old builds aren't optimal anymore is absurd.

Its already not optimal to build around for the most part.

Fact still remains some of the changes they've done don't seem to have been thought out well. Similar to how they were going to change frenzy charges back in the day.

For someone thats never gotten high level it seems you know it all about the game.