Harvest needs a big nerf for next league.

"

bartigerhans wrote:

I absolutely agree that harvest does have a place in this game

BUT:


The state its in right now is unacceptable, Players with money print mirror items, with the same stats over and over (me included).

I think its important to point out that items which can be done through Harvest are not "mirror tier" when we leave lucky Maven Orb slams aside as those Items can be usually made for far less than a mirror.

The only reason to complain about Harvest is when you have been a mirror tier crafter before. But even then the mirror tier crafters i know enjoy their time of their lives with Harvest.

"

bartigerhans wrote:

Harvest singlehandedly destroyed the low-mid tier item market. either you sell good bases, or copy and pasted 6T1 harvest crafted items. Thats the item market right now and its disgusting.

Just my two cents

I dont agree about Harvest destroying the market. Its never been easier to make currency through Harvest. In fact selling Harvest crafts generates far more currency than selling shitty mid tier rares that no one wants anyway by the time league is 2 weeks old.

"

zzang wrote:

I dont agree about Harvest destroying the market. Its never been easier to make currency through Harvest. In fact selling Harvest crafts generates far more currency than selling shitty mid tier rares that no one wants anyway by the time league is 2 weeks old.

There is no functionality for selling Harvest crafts, though. You rely on a rather mediocre implementation of a third-party discord channel with (I have been told) rather strange moderation, plus it is a very open invitation for scamming (less of a problem if you are selling, but still, pretty dumb).

"

Char1983 wrote:

There is no functionality for selling Harvest crafts, though. You rely on a rather mediocre implementation of a third-party discord channel with (I have been told) rather strange moderation, plus it is a very open invitation for scamming (less of a problem if you are selling, but still, pretty dumb).

You still have guild mates and friends to sell dont you?

The functionality for selling is there in fact all the so called "mirror tier items" were made with TFT discord trading. There is a "second currency" called trust which can be seen from vouch count + membership days. I have done several crafts like:



and didnt got scammed once and i passed those items to so many people.


Its your decision if you want to be part of trade or not. If not there is hardcOre solo selffound for those with too much time.

"

zzang wrote:

"

bartigerhans wrote:

I absolutely agree that harvest does have a place in this game

BUT:


The state its in right now is unacceptable, Players with money print mirror items, with the same stats over and over (me included).

I think its important to point out that items which can be done through Harvest are not "mirror tier" when we leave lucky Maven Orb slams aside as those Items can be usually made for far less than a mirror.

The only reason to complain about Harvest is when you have been a mirror tier crafter before. But even then the mirror tier crafters i know enjoy their time of their lives with Harvest.

"

bartigerhans wrote:

Harvest singlehandedly destroyed the low-mid tier item market. either you sell good bases, or copy and pasted 6T1 harvest crafted items. Thats the item market right now and its disgusting.

Just my two cents

I dont agree about Harvest destroying the market. Its never been easier to make currency through Harvest. In fact selling Harvest crafts generates far more currency than selling shitty mid tier rares that no one wants anyway by the time league is 2 weeks old.

You said it yourself, making currency through harvest.

Harvest, the end all be all, it invalidates basically almost all the other methods if you know what you are doing

it is:

- The best currency farming method
- The best crafting method
- Good for drops in general, dropped multiple exalts and even a mirror in the harvest area



Its overtuned and overshadows everything elese, hence all the posts about "pls buff harvest rate, pls more storage, pls more remove / add"

Its frankly overtuned as fuck and devalues items.

Before that i made lots of mediocre rings that sold for like 10-25 exalts, with the rare good one that sold for 50+, and i sold around 3-4 each week.
Sales since harvest is in the game have been 0 (rings) in 4 weeks.

I do get that this game needs more determinism, and i agree with that.
But going from 100% RNG based crafting to basically 100% deterministic farming might have just been a bit too fast in my opinion.

I just think that items should have a limit on how often / how many stats can be changed with harvest. That would, in my opinion, be the optimal use of it and not as overpowered as it is right now.


Edit: Not all the mirror items were made with TFT, i made a perfect 1h elder bleed axe (literally perfectly divined, best mods possible for an elder axe) all myself. Yes it took time, but it's possible. Afterwards i started trading on TFT though because the work of 2 weeks could have been done in 3 hours with tft. The only gating mechanism for harvest (with tft use) is the money you put in. And frankly, ive sold a golden mantle that cost me 300 ex and 3 hours of TFT trading to make for 2 mirrors around a week ago. "harvest crafted items are not mirror items" true, but there are many people out there who dont want to or are not able to craft such things, and they pay an extra fee.

Would it hurt my currency strategy if harvest got nerfed? yes definately
But i think it would be healthier for the game overall, because not everybody would be chasing harvest like they were heroin addicts

"

bartigerhans wrote:

Before that i made lots of mediocre rings that sold for like 10-25 exalts, with the rare good one that sold for 50+, and i sold around 3-4 each week.
Sales since harvest is in the game have been 0 (rings) in 4 weeks

This sounds like made up out of thin air. You are a standard player. There is no way you sell mid tier rings for 10-25ex in standard. They didnt sold before Harvest in standard and they dont sell now.

The Harvest imolementation is perfect as it gives anyone a chance to make competing items or currency with enough time and dedication or trade there is nothing wrong with that.
True mirror tier items like phys weapons and synthesis bases are still very hard to make even with Harvest.

"

zzang wrote:

"

bartigerhans wrote:

Before that i made lots of mediocre rings that sold for like 10-25 exalts, with the rare good one that sold for 50+, and i sold around 3-4 each week.
Sales since harvest is in the game have been 0 (rings) in 4 weeks

This sounds like a made up out if thin air. You are a standard player. There is no way you sell mid tier rings for 10-25ex in standard. They didnt sold before Harvest in standard and they dont sell now.

The Harvest imolementation is perfect as it gives anyone a chance to make competing items or currency with enough time and dedication or trade there is nothing wrong with that.
True mirror tier items like phys weapons and synthesis bases are still very hard to make even with Harvest.

There actually was a mid-tier playerbase. not many people in there, but there was one, the rings im talking about are stuffs like

Stuff like this, not very good but maintainable.

And you can say "you didnt sell those" all you want, it doesnt make the currency i made selling them disappear

To adress the edit:

"

bartigerhans wrote:

Edit: Not all the mirror items were made with TFT, i made a perfect 1h elder bleed axe (literally perfectly divined, best mods possible for an elder axe) all myself. Yes it took time, but it's possible. Afterwards i started trading on TFT though because the work of 2 weeks could have been done in 3 hours with tft. The only gating mechanism for harvest (with tft use) is the money you put in. And frankly, ive sold a golden mantle that cost me 300 ex and 3 hours of TFT trading to make for 2 mirrors around a week ago. "harvest crafted items are not mirror items" true, but there are many people out there who dont want to or are not able to craft such things, and they pay an extra fee.

Bleed Axe isnt as hard as tripple t1 phys weapon not even close.
And if you made a tripple maven orb item where maven orb costs between 35-40 ex in standard within a few hours for total 300 ex cost that just means you were INSANELY lucky. Its like complaining you found two subsequent mirrors in 3 hours game is ruined now11!1
It took me like 40 r/a life to hit a proper t1 life roll on one of my items and it took me several days simply because the demand is so high and supply so low plus RNG.

"

bartigerhans wrote:

There actually was a mid-tier playerbase. not many people in there, but there was one, the rings im talking about are stuffs like

Stuff like this, not very good but maintainable.

And you can say "you didnt sell those" all you want, it doesnt make the currency i made selling them disappear

There is no way those overpriced rings sold in standard for 20 ex. No way in hell.
I tried to sell this ring for MONTHS for 40 ex in standard way before harvest and no one bought it:


It was literally mirror tier several years ago and it still decent without the catalyst but still it simply doesnt sell in standard.

To me this whole thread looks like a vocal minority complaining for personal reasons and when GGG checks their numbers its probably most played time + runned maps in all leagues ever. So can be called most successful league implementation in the core game.

Just look at the post count of 3 people pushing this thread daily. Its an agenda not a discussion.

If you didnt succeed in selling it, maybe try pricing it a bit lower, i dont know.

I didnt sell any non influenced rings, but personally from looking at that ring, its good, but the phys and accuracy is kinda "meh" imho, and its already mirrored which further devalues it. Has for sure been a fucking insane ring a few years ago. but thats the clue: a few years ago

As for prices, just go lower with it every week thats how stuff sells.

overall i've sold like 30-40 rings in this price category, during the pre 3.13 time.


Also, i'm only actively playing since 3.5 months, so i dont really have a clue what happened before that in standard.

BTW these prices are probably to high now, post 3.12 as weve got the aformentioned harvest ingame, but i didnt bother a second pricechecking them now, and they will just rot in stash


Edit: You do know that a bleed axe also needs merciless flaring, right? and that was , the last time i checked, pretty hard to roll. Sure not as hard as T1 Flat, T1 % T1 Hybrid, but still its only a 63% chance to hit it within 20.000 jaggeds.

Meh, TencentGGG needs to add a proper "deterrent" to fast-forward traded Harvest craft, like each attempt adding at least a 24H counter (if not making it scale with the number of Harvest crafts attempted) until it can be applied again - working with items not in Harvest player's stash/inventory and keeping track of player to player trading item interaction (so you could leave your item to someone that fast-tracks by finding dozens of Harvests still, but it's ONLY ONE PERSON, and you actually miss the item + an obscene cost for the endeavor)...

This solution would work by still allowing trade to improve items, but would delay the mirror items immensely - especially if they scale the duration of delay with the number of attempted Harvest crafts...

And no, they shouldn't let other crafts bypass the limit, it needs to be "item editor" TARGETED...

Another way would be to scale the outcome of Harvest by improving the outcome with the number of attempts - so 1 in a couple thousands chance to hit the desired outcome at first, after a few dozen attempts that could be scaled to 1 in 10. And hitting the PERFECT values on ALL mods should be definitely more difficult...

With a proper adjustment to Harvest encounters, we would then benefit from seeing a delay for the "mirror" items hitting the market later than first week...

The current Harvest implementation related that Harvest crafts shouldn't be traded "easily" (entrusting others with your "precious" items does leave you open to grief, but most players actually are decent beings and don't scam you "just because", especially with a vouch system), so TencentGGG can either double down on their asinine stance regarding trading as being "inconvenient" or simply balance it in a way that the most important Harvest crafts will get their outcome improved the more they are attempted, so at least the players that want those "mirror" items finished will have to take time AND cost...

scumbags hanging out on that discord or having peons working for them to get the harvest and get stuff for free should take a sweet cup of stfu in my opinion.

still I wonder if TGGG dev's will actually leave their game economy be in control of some randoms on a discord where things can be easily manipulated because they are too stubborn to actually make some sort of harvest orb like bestiary cages.

get out of that discord if you're getting "multiple mirrors" easy.. you set your own difficulty in this game nobody else forces you to sit on that discord for weeks waiting for what you want then voice your demands of nerfs because you're not capable of simply leaving a discord server.. it's your fault, not the game or the players.

It's true that harvest implementation was and will be terrible if it stays this way.