Is it just me or is Evasion complete garbage?

I'm pretty sure most people with at least reasonable experience with evasion can agree that compared to the other base defenses (armor or ES)that it's less effective overall than the other two.

I also think that those same people would agree that while it may be particularly lacking in comparison - it's not complete garbage either.

Now, something like Veil of the Night - that's complete garbage aside from paying homage to D2. It just has no practical use outside of maybe low level SSF.

It's better than outright negative resistance... which wouldn't be penalized till after Act 5, and goldrim already sets the low level standard before that anyway.

Armour is actually far worse than evasion but because of vaal molten shell, it actually became useful. Actually, before the new vaal molten shell, armour was literally useless. The problem is that people associate %physical damage reduction with armour. The %physical damage reduction you see in the character page is the combined of the estimated %physical reduction from armour and the flat %physical reduction from other sources. if you get 50% from armour and 10% from other sources, the big hits will be reduced to close to 10% making armour useless. On the other hand, evasion is deterministic, if you have over 50%, you will never get hit twice in a row.

I'd say a big change was the immortal call nerf losing its 100% phys immunity that really got that ball rolling.

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Altnaharra wrote:

For example, if you normally have a 35% chance to evade a monster attack, blinding that monster will improve evasion as shown:
chance to evade = 1 - 0.5 times (1 - 0.35) = 67.5%
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What you just wrote is 'exactly' not what happens when you have low evasion.
If you have low evasion, blind doesn't apply god mode, it also doesn't mean that they will miss half their attacks.

Their crit chance will be reduced, sure.
Their light radius, k.
But they'll still not give a mudcrab about your 5% chance to evade.

Don't get me wrong, blind is great WITH evasion.
Blind is Rhoa droppings without evasion.

Is that better for you?

Look I know your not trying to be malicious despite the condescending tone but you simply don't understand the formula because that is exactly what it says.

The easiest way to think of it is chance to be hit divided by 2 is added to your evade so in your wiki example (where the formula is btw you can do the maths yourself) you have 35% chance to evade, 65% chance to be hit, 65/2 = 32.5, 35+32.5 = 67.5% chance to evade.

If you have 0% base chance to evade your evade is set to 50%, if you have 5% like you quoted you'd have 95/2 = (47.5 + 5) = 52.5% evade chance. This makes blind universally useful whether you have 0 evade or a 90% chance it always doubles how many attacks are required to hit you.

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DamageIncorporated wrote:

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Phrazz wrote:

No, it's not. It's the nature of bad evasion builds, without layers of defenses.

Stop playing semantics. It's boring. I was referring to evasion and only evasion, but you know that. Here, Ket me quote my self for you, seeing how you have a hard time reading:

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DamageIncorporated wrote:

Evasion alone isn't so great. Evasion+ Trickster+ES is great. Evasion+Dodge+ block is great, etc. It's a piece of a puzzle, not the whole puzzle.

You are pointing out the obvious. I say evasion alone is bad, and you pipe up no, only bad evasion builds are bad. Gimme a break. Evasion alone, and dying to one shots IS in fact the nature of evasion. It happens. It's terrible.
Is it good combined with other layers of defense? Duh.

I pointed it out because that's the case with all defenses. Armour alone is also bad, and provides no defense against elemental spells, something dodge does. Armor dominates the current meta because of VMS. "But armour is bad without VMS" becomes as irrelevant as "evasion is bad without dodge". You die JUST as fast to elemental oneshots with armour as you do with evasion. And physical oneshots can "easilly" be avoided with good gear.

You're more or less meant to take Acrobatics/Phase Acrobatics when building an evasion character. There's NO downside to it. So looking at evasion alone, instead of looking at the complete picture becomes... Irrelevant. And, to use your words; "boring".

VMS is currently WAY to strong COMPARED to the alternatives. There's no dexterity skill available in the same ballpark. That's the MAIN reason why armour is dominating the META, not armour itself. "Armour without +max resist, health regen, VMS or EC is bad"... Of course it is...

Evasion has always been severely underrated - mainly due to people not knowing how the game works. This hasn't changed.

All of this talk about VMS is kind of odd to me because it's a very good candidate for getting nerfed.

It also tells me that Evasion is lacking a guard skill that rewards stacking Evasion, rather than it is necessary a terrible mechanic because Armor has one.

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Altnaharra wrote:

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VolcanoElixir wrote:

All of this talk about VMS is kind of odd to me because it's a very good candidate for getting nerfed.

It also tells me that Evasion is lacking a guard skill that rewards stacking Evasion, rather than it is necessary a terrible mechanic because Armor has one.

Vaal grace says hello.

I'm dumb.

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VolcanoElixir wrote:

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Altnaharra wrote:

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VolcanoElixir wrote:

All of this talk about VMS is kind of odd to me because it's a very good candidate for getting nerfed.

It also tells me that Evasion is lacking a guard skill that rewards stacking Evasion, rather than it is necessary a terrible mechanic because Armor has one.

Vaal grace says hello.

I'm dumb.

Nah. You are still correct. Vaal grace is great and all but id love to see you use it during the sirus fight. Regular molten shell is still available as a 10k oh shit button. Evasion is still lacking a cooldown based guard skill.

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Altnaharra wrote:

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gladiatorpie wrote:

Nah. You are still correct. Vaal grace is great and all but id love to see you use it during the sirus fight. Regular molten shell is still available as a 10k oh shit button. Evasion is still lacking a cooldown based guard skill.

Withering step says hello.
Its baby brother Phase Run says hi too.

Why would an evasion based guard skill not include movement or dodge?
Evasion isn't about taking the hit, that's why its evasion.

* Though if we're exploring the idea..
Stretching it might be attacker has % chance to flee applied when hit.
But this could be achieved with riposte or the like and multiple socket investment.

Phase run. Eh

Withering step I will accept though. I did forget about that one.