Is it just me or is Evasion complete garbage?

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xMustard wrote:

i also hate having most of your defense tied up into perfectly timing an MS or VMS, which will almost never happen.
watch HC streamers and how they pop...it just happens. its too fast to react.

+1

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DamageIncorporated wrote:

Dodge /evasion and only dodge evasion is terribly squishy. You go from everything is peachy to dead all the sudden. Also.....the context was the statement that it's tanky. I don't care that you meant for the level of investment. But if you insist, it needs lots of investment. The Acrobatics/phase acrobatics line, Raider its self, asstons of evasion. That's not cheap, and in the end you will get one shotted occasionally, and that's annoying as heck.

what build doesn't go from "everything is peachy to dead all of a sudden"??
all of em do. go watch HC streamers and their rips. they never go evasion/dodge and its the exact same deaths.

also, no the level of investment is not high at all compared to others. the acro/phase acro as ranger/shadow is literally like 5 points. that is insanely cheap.
and as a raider you do not need "asstons" of evasion. since raider gets MORE evade chance you actually don't even need hardly any flat evasion. maybe 500-1000 flat evasion.

my highest level character and tankiest character i've ever played/created was in delve league, lvl 99, molten strike raider with avatar of chase and veil. almost 9k hp (could easily get 9k hp with newly introduced gear). evade cap with only using atziri's step. that is my only source of evasion.

any other ascendancy will need more evasion for sure, but they also can't even evade cap. im pretty sure raider is the only one that can.

either way in the end all builds will just get one shotted, and thats annoying as heck.
this isn't new. especially in metamorph everyone is getting one shotted. they're not all playing evasion builds, lol

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yamface wrote:

For HC. And the other guy wanted to filter for players lv97+ which comes to 61% of rangers using IR.

Also vms was always this strong ever since it was reworked in 3.7. Literally my characters were facetanking 6-7 maraketh rares on unid t16s. Vms solves a long standing problem that armor was mediocre, and it's currently one of the few things left that is making HC remotely playable. If this thing gets nerfed, there needs to be a serious look at how HC can function otherwise because over in HC vms is a religon.

I think the real emphasis should be on HC's state of playability. I ran a necro for the first time this league and I'm pretty sure she's died more than the first character I got to 88-89 in abyss. Despite having grown as a player with plenty of league characters in their 90s, I've died more than ever on what should be one of the most defensive playstyle characters in the game.

Don't get me wrong, a lot of it has been buggy performance with the minion army - the last patch smoothed out most of the slideshows but practically broke death and taxes - never in any of the previous leagues have I had that hard a time keeping the boss from following (pathing changes in patch).

But even if you disregard the slideshow and silly deaths, there's no denying the increase to incoming damage is taking its toll. Maybe they're trying to push even us SC folks into running with a bigger ehp at the cost of offense. But the last handful of deaths to my necro were pretty unavoidable short of skipping the content. And a lot of it was over the course of an instant with plenty of it unable to be seen over all the layered effects.

It's one thing if its a boss with telegraphed attacks/movements - it's another to get blown up from damage coming from offscreen as you're forced through a choke point while maxing the range on the minions.

If its not the minion army masking the screen, its all the ground effects and shit flying all over the place making it hard to differentiate. The game is in a horrible state for HC play.

TLDR: i got a lvl 100 95% chance to evade build profile is public. Evasion is good in maps and trash against serious bosses because mostly the boss attacks are spell "attacks".

Iron Reflex on the other hand with broken imbalanced Vaal Molten Shell is very good and reliable.

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Zakaluka wrote:

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Draegnarrr wrote:

It is true, most players will avoid evade you are just describing the few that don't :p <4% of players are rangers, that is few at least as far as i'm concerned.

ITT the only dex-aligned classes and all their ascendancies are irrelevant to the discussion. Got it.

Don't get butthurt about it my statement was most avoid evasion in HC, you are trying to create a fictional dynamic but the facts are irrefutable. Those ascedancies aren't irrelevant but they are few that is the entire point whereas you are setting out to prove evade is good based on what raiders alone? Most players aren't raiders infact there are so few raiders I could literally make it onto the PoE ninja raider list in less than a day lol.

@MS is hard to time no it isn't, inc duration molten shell lasts like 5s, VMS lasts 16 you can do pretty much any content in the game in 16s that requires it (legions, metamorphs, most of a guardian etc) meanwhile steelskin lasts 1.5 and has a much smaller value yet people regularly make comment about a "well timed steelskin" please buff steelskin GGG

lots of people mentioning dodge too dodge is sweet, so is block I don't think anyone really disputes that whenever I play a raider I do my best to cap dodge I even had a 70/60 dodge hierophant this league lol. dodge is not evade though.

zzangs tldr above really summarizes the whole thing :P its playable but flawed. Garbage is too harsh of a word from the OP but its in a pretty bad spot for a whole variety of reasons.

The most silly and laudable part is that ppl are saying evasion is garbage so that the devs can improve upon it.

The supporters that evasion is godly may cause the devs to think that evasion doesn't need any improvement.

Even when armor is good enough before 3.7, the dev has introduced molten shell to make armor builds even better because 'evasion is too godly'.

It is no wonder that evasion deserves a nerf because the 'supporters' are so thick skin to think that it is good, just to prove to everyone else that they are such a good player.

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Setasuna wrote:

The most silly and laudable part is that ppl are saying evasion is garbage so that the devs can improve upon it.

The supporters that evasion is godly may cause the devs to think that evasion doesn't need any improvement.

Even when armor is good enough before 3.7, the dev has introduced molten shell to make armor builds even better because 'evasion is too godly'.

It is no wonder that evasion deserves a nerf because the 'supporters' are so thick skin to think that it is good, just to prove to everyone else that they are such a good player.

It's not about defending it for being good so much as when people complain about something without actually understanding it - something pretty common post social media days.

Pushing to get something buffed through complaints alone rarely nets the desired result.

Remember when the complaints about sulphite during delve were consistent and the annoyance of farming quarry? Pretty sure we lost the guaranteed quarry spawns and were forced to run maps - which in turn got a minor buff in scaling up sulphite.

Trying to get something buffed doesn't work so well - trying to get something nerfed on the other hand just takes a number of people actually requesting it in comparison. I still remember someone complaining about pure breachstone xp because it made level 100 more accessible. They wanted to nerf the experience for the solo runners yet maintain the bonuses to grouping all the while complaining about said grouping. They still got their wish.

Well, everything is relative. That being said, evasion is in a bad state if you ask me.

The Iron reflexes statistic really sais alot. That node should exist for certain build options in my opinion; if 20-30% of players take it that is proof of a design flaw (especially since the node forfeits your dex bonus to evasion!)

I guess the "logic" behind it is that "rangers" are supposed to have the advantage of running around clearing the map from offscreen. Maybe that's true in some cases, but there's alot of content where that's not as viable.

Ranger has always been my main but I finally put that aside after this league. After all the tweaking with life, defenses and maybe even iron reflexes I realised I might as well go duelist and pick up a bow later if I miss it. Have not regretted the decision.

In short I wouldn't recommend evasion to any new/casual player that wants to experience all content. There was a suggestion made awhile ago about giving dex/evasion a "guard" skill that is as natural and accessible as molten shell etc. I like that idea.

That being said, ofcourse evasion can work for alot of people. If you know mechanics well enough, want to bring up a speedy clearspeed farmer, you are happy with lvl94 or so, maybe you enjoy the adrenaline of knowing you WILL get hit sooner or later, etc - then there's alot of builds for you.

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

Trying to get something buffed doesn't work so well - trying to get something nerfed on the other hand just takes a number of people actually requesting it in comparison.

IMO this is false causality, most of the things people complain about are glaringly broken and I wouldn't ascribe them being nerfed to the community.

Like molten strike for example, IMO they went too far with the nerf for MS but it was broken by a considerable margin. Did they nerf it because the community complained for so long? I'd like to think not because it paints them as extremely incompetent.

I don't think you'd find anyone who would advocate a nerf to evasion anyway, it already got a small nerf when they did the accuracy change.

This might change when we get the PoE 2 ascendancy with your evade works on spells not attacks (I think that was what it is) which would make evade pretty much the most busted defence ever. Still doubt that node will make it in lol

It makes a lot of sense if we see Vaal Molten Shell nerfs coming patch. It breaks balance with a lot of things not just with Evasion+Iron Reflexes