Is it just me or is Evasion complete garbage?

This discussion is pure gold for someone like me who has avoided the bottom right of the tree like the plague.

Evasion is awesome.

If you take Iron Reflexes and abuse vaal molten shell. 30-50k VMS allows you to facetank.

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nebel wrote:

Evasion is awesome.

If you take Iron Reflexes and abuse vaal molten shell. 30-50k VMS allows you to facetank.

It caps at 30k *tidus laugh*

pathfinders are great with IR, not necessarily everything else.

its just funny. this conversation has been had since i started playing in beta. at least not as many people are fully against evasion as a viable mechanic as back then.

i still think raider is the most defensive character in the game for its extremely small investment. and until things/ascendancys/passive tree is change im sure it'll remain that way for awhile. just like its been that way since beta.
but nobody gives it a chance.

i'll always prefer never getting hit as opposed to getting hit every single time. however, two things every single build should be utilizing, in my opinion, is:

1) blind. instant 50% chance to evade attacks. every single build should have this unless you have unwavering stance.
this is one thing which kicks evasion in the ass. because you can go full armor/mitigation and still get 50% chance to evade instantly and easily.

2) withering step. most defensive ability in the game. its like a quicksilver flask and a super quartz flask in a single button push.
an instant (though degrading) buff of 55% movement speed, 27% dodge and 27% spell dodge as well as phasing. its insane. best get out of jail free card for any evasive character, and second best get out of jail free card for anyone else (behind maybe VMS if you have it available and your granite flask active)


the other really funny thing i always find about this conversation about evasion....
people keep saying when you don't evade, you die. not really true...but yes one shots CAN happen. but people mention this as though one shots don't happen to armor/mitigation characters. THEY DO. its a common denominator. all characters are able to be one shot whether you're armor or evasion. doesn't matter.

thing is, most "instant deaths" from armor characters come in way of getting burned down instantly. getting hit 50 times in the span of less than the blink of an eye. evasive characters do not experience this.

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Draegnarrr wrote:

most HC players will avoid evasion

What you're saying sounds reasonable but it's not true. Acrobatics got buffed the same time armor did (steelskin) to cover a major gap in the system (raw EPH); just not by nearly as much.

I don't like acrobatics builds, mostly gave up on them back in betrayal when an actual dangerous boss glanced sideways at my decked Pathfinder and erased it. They just aren't good at all content, only certain content. But I looked at the actual data.

Of 97+ rangers in HC metamorph,
81% took acrobatics
8% have iron reflex,
Only 3% have mind over matter.
Looking at ascendancies individually shows a little bit of a difference between the three, not that much.

What Acro builds do well, they do extremely well. Happens to handle the current lineup of endgame bosses mostly fine. Even with MS, armor is lackluster without endurance charges - it doesn't play into Dex side builds elegantly.

It is true, most players will avoid evade you are just describing the few that don't :p <4% of players are rangers, that is few at least as far as i'm concerned.

everyone who has a decent opportunity to not go evade will not go evade, raiders don't have much choice and have great synergy etc

then of the few rangers there actually are that don't go iron reflexes a large number will go for capped dodge and have a big sponge pool with a kaoms etc like lmao just click through them people skip evade if they can.

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xMustard wrote:

i still think raider is the most defensive character in the game

If you mean squishiest in the game, totally otherwise...wot? just no.

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DamageIncorporated wrote:

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xMustard wrote:

i still think raider is the most defensive character in the game

If you mean squishiest in the game, totally otherwise...wot? just no.

Raider is very defensive if you want it to be.

10/10 dodge/spell dodge, LESS accuracy rating of nearby enemies, tonnes of movement speed, decent/MORE evasion (depending on build/ascendancy route), phasing and immunity to all ailments.

Raider is FAR from the squishiest, and is absolutely one of the more defensively solid choices, especially on the right side of the tree. My high evasion/max dodge Raider from last league is probably one of the "tankiest" builds I've ever made, even though I don't like to use the word "tanky" when it comes to avoidance.

Of course, if you compare them with mana guardians or EC oriented Juggs, they fall short.

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Draegnarrr wrote:

It is true, most players will avoid evade you are just describing the few that don't :p <4% of players are rangers, that is few at least as far as i'm concerned.

ITT the only dex-aligned classes and all their ascendancies are irrelevant to the discussion. Got it.

In context. I was told that the only Shadow ascendancy that's really relevant to hardcore doesn't mean anything in this discussion.

Now I'm told that rangers don't matter to this discussion.

Before then, I was told that the most relevant Outlook would be to look at what people in hardcore are doing with regard to Dex aligned classes.

A bit ironic.

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DamageIncorporated wrote:

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xMustard wrote:

i still think raider is the most defensive character in the game

If you mean squishiest in the game, totally otherwise...wot? just no.

why don't you quote in context??
here allow me

"

i still think raider is the most defensive character in the game for its extremely small investment.

if you choose raider and use avatar of the chase (1. ascendancy) and go acrobatics (2. 5 passives off of your normal routing. maximum of 7 from where any raider build goes) and use a jade flask of reflexes (1 flask) and have onslaught active (built into ascendancy) then you already have
95% evasion
40% dodge
30% spell dodge

upwards of 50% dodge and 40% spell dodge if you also go avatar of the veil. which also nets you an easier 95% evasion cap AND immunity to ailments.

while using vaal grace or withering step you can get capped dodge.

that is EXTREMELY defensive for its VERY LITTLE investment. this allows you much more wiggle room to squeeze in as much life as possible in order to pretty easily get over 6k life as well, which coupled with other mitigations is very effective to never get hit and when you do you won't get one shot.