Is it just me or is Evasion complete garbage?

oh, and funny enough. as raider with the MORE evasion CHANCE (not more evasion rating, big important difference), if you went IR and blinded things you still can have 50% + 30% more = 65% evade chance

avatar of the chase boosts the evade chance you get from just having blind, which is always 50% chance to evade even if you use iron reflexes to stack armor and use VMS.

i have tried it myself as well, but i prefer just having full avoidance. feels better IMO.

i also hate having most of your defense tied up into perfectly timing an MS or VMS, which will almost never happen.
watch HC streamers and how they pop...it just happens. its too fast to react.

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Zakaluka wrote:

ITT the only dex-aligned classes and all their ascendancies are irrelevant to the discussion. Got it.

In context. I was told that the only Shadow ascendancy that's really relevant to hardcore doesn't mean anything in this discussion.

Now I'm told that rangers don't matter to this discussion.

Before then, I was told that the most relevant Outlook would be to look at what people in hardcore are doing with regard to Dex aligned classes.

A bit ironic.

You were looking at sc stats. This is the filter you specified for rangers: https://poe.ninja/challengehc/builds?class=Deadeye,Pathfinder,Raider&minlevel=97

IR is the #1 picked keystone.

I can concede that tricksters are the 1 ascendancy that can make use of evasion, but as said earlier, if you check poe ninja, almost all of the top tricksters are stacking es with ci instead.

At the moment there is currently no class that is favoring evasion. In HC. And again, that is VERY telling about the state of evasion.

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Phrazz wrote:

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DamageIncorporated wrote:

"

xMustard wrote:

i still think raider is the most defensive character in the game

If you mean squishiest in the game, totally otherwise...wot? just no.

Raider is very defensive if you want it to be.

10/10 dodge/spell dodge, LESS accuracy rating of nearby enemies, tonnes of movement speed, decent/MORE evasion (depending on build/ascendancy route), phasing and immunity to all ailments.

Raider is FAR from the squishiest, and is absolutely one of the more defensively solid choices, especially on the right side of the tree. My high evasion/max dodge Raider from last league is probably one of the "tankiest" builds I've ever made, even though I don't like to use the word "tanky" when it comes to avoidance.

Of course, if you compare them with mana guardians or EC oriented Juggs, they fall short.

Dodge /evasion and only dodge evasion is terribly squishy. You go from everything is peachy to dead all the sudden. Also.....the context was the statement that it's tanky. I don't care that you meant for the level of investment. But if you insist, it needs lots of investment. The Acrobatics/phase acrobatics line, Raider its self, asstons of evasion. That's not cheap, and in the end you will get one shotted occasionally, and that's annoying as heck.

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DamageIncorporated wrote:

and in the end you will get one shotted occasionally, and that's annoying as heck.

Well, you maybe.

Did all content on my Raider last league, and leveled to 100 only running Delve and T16 maps without getting oneshot. So what you mean by "in the end", I'm not sure.

Evasion/dodge often get "overlooked" based on the wrong premises. People think it's all random, while that is far from the truth. Entropy system with evasion, crit avoidance and A LOT of reduction available on gear is more than enough to not get oneshot. Up to a certain point? Yes, alternatives may be better. After a certain point? Evasion surpasses a lot of the alternatives. Of course, if you know how to layer your defenses. Not everyone does.

And when people are talking about "evasion/dodge" characters being tanky, they aren't talking about "only evaion/dodge", they are talking about a good built character using evasion and dodge. You always have to layer your defenses on top of that.

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yamface wrote:

You were looking at sc stats.

I clicked the link you posted and here's what comes up.



Getting a bit tired, continue with whatever this is. I'm just interested in pointing out what the actual true data illustrates here.

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Zakaluka wrote:

Getting a bit tired, continue with whatever this is. I'm just interested in pointing out what the actual true data illustrates here.

Go back to that link and set the level to 97+, just like you originally proposed. The poe ninja link for some reason resets to the default range even if it's specified in the url.

This is what the keystone list looks like.


Folks. Even rangers are avoiding evasion.

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Phrazz wrote:

Well, you maybe.

lul?

It's THE NATURE of evasion based builds. Are you being deliberately obtuse?

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Phrazz wrote:

And when people are talking about "evasion/dodge" characters being tanky, they aren't talking about "only evaion/dodge", they are talking about a good built character using evasion and dodge. You always have to layer your defenses on top of that.

Exactly! But that's not what you were saying a min ago.

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DamageIncorporated wrote:

Exactly! But that's not what you were saying a min ago.

Of course it was.

I just think it's pretty... Implied... That when I say "Evasion/dodge is strong", I'm actually talking about a well though-out character based around evasion/dodge, and not a character slapping Phase Acrobatics on a build for fun. The same goes for the defenses of Raider; they are pretty strong, if you actually build on their synergies.

If you'll read my comments again, with that in mind, I'm sure you'll make sense of it.

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DamageIncorporated wrote:

It's THE NATURE of evasion based builds. Are you being deliberately obtuse?

No, it's not. It's the nature of bad evasion builds, without layers of defenses.

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yamface wrote:

Folks. Even rangers are avoiding evasion.

What?

I'm not very drilled in PoE Ninja, but when I go to builds it shows me the following:

Raider: Acrobatics 79%, Iron Reflexes 16%
Deadeye: Acrobatics 90%, Iron Reflexes 2%
Pathfinder: Acrobatics 67%, Iron Reflexes 10%

As I said, not very drilled in PoE Ninja, so please correct me, and tell me what I'm doing wrong. And those few percentages are only taking IR because of how stupidly unbalanced VMS is. And we all know VMS is taking a hit next league.

Edit: Ah, got it, where I was going wrong, was probably SC. HC stats look like this:

Raider: 83% Acro, 20% IR
Deadeye: 72% Acro, 11% IR
Pathfinder: 43% Acro, 33% IR

Don't see how any of those stats justify the sentence "Folks. Even rangers are avoiding evasion".

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Phrazz wrote:

What?

I'm not very drilled in PoE Ninja, but when I go to builds it shows me the following:

Raider: Acrobatics 79%, Iron Reflexes 16%
Deadeye: Acrobatics 90%, Iron Reflexes 2%
Pathfinder: Acrobatics 67%, Iron Reflexes 10%

As I said, not very drilled in PoE Ninja, so please correct me, and tell me what I'm doing wrong.

For HC. And the other guy wanted to filter for players lv97+ which comes to 61% of rangers using IR.

Also vms was always this strong ever since it was reworked in 3.7. Literally my characters were facetanking 6-7 maraketh rares on unid t16s. Vms solves a long standing problem that armor was mediocre, and it's currently one of the few things left that is making HC remotely playable. If this thing gets nerfed, there needs to be a serious look at how HC can function otherwise because over in HC vms is a religon.

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yamface wrote:

For HC. And the other guy wanted to filter for players lv97+ which comes to 61% of rangers using IR.

Got it.

VMS and Metamorph ground effects. If you look at the same stats for Blight, it tells a completely different story.