PoE's item trading system

I'm not an expert though a autmated system would work like the system we have right now, or not? We have a Website with automated post and searches. The only thing is, it would be not be a irritating piece of work with a ingame system.
We have already flipping/scammers/Bots/fixed prices/whatever?
So what would change ? I read that the economy would die/explode/thanos-like-vanishing but all the bad stuff that is discribed here takes already place except the economy explosion thing.
Can someone enligthen me on that matter?

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mllerchristian55 wrote:

I'm not an expert though a autmated system would work like the system we have right now, or not? We have a Website with automated post and searches. The only thing is, it would be not be a irritating piece of work with a ingame system.
We have already flipping/scammers/Bots/fixed prices/whatever?
So what would change ? I read that the economy would die/explode/thanos-like-vanishing but all the bad stuff that is discribed here takes already place except the economy explosion thing.
Can someone enligthen me on that matter?

Currency flippers even with bots there is a delay to execute trade. They have to read the whisper, Invite the person who want to trade, Waiting the person come to hideout, trade and count the item, accept trade and kick the person out of the party. I think on average 20-30 second. With automated trading those troublesome step will be bypassed.(No Need doing all troublesome step above). More Trade Volume, More profit, More flippers join the fray.

Since flip currency is fast they can expand scope of operations into other consumable for example t16 map. They autobuy all t16 map in the market that being sold as chaos, and put back into market as chisel. Since they already flipping currency might as well expand to consumables. Did you able to foresee this? You can only buy map from them but first you have to buy chisel from them.

Wether they expand into Uniques/Rares I think it plausible, need tons of extra stash.

So before implementing automated market PoE might need single currency. But it might discourage player from picking low level currency.

Other options? Limit trade? Can only trade 2 times per hour? I Againts it.

What other options? Reduce filters that can be used? I also Againts it.

Some other options? item have to be unsold for 2 weeks before listed in automatic market? I Againts it.

Lets just stop think about automated trading. Just enjoy Grinding Gear Games spirit, Grinding to get Gear.

Hmmm i respect your wish for no automation on the trading but your reason behind your opinion is for me not comprehensible.

For me it sounds more like : we dont get the good stuff because bad stuff could be happening.

Furthermore you confirmed that we already have the problems discribed. You just say it will get worse and we all have to suffer.

I didnt asked for a fully automated trading. I dont know who asked but i didnt. Also why should we need a single currency ?

My approach would be a trading chest with buyouts and a proper Messagesystem. For the chest you can give permission on a specific trade. The buyer visits your hideout and walks up to your tradechest and buy it. So he has to pm you and need your permission and has to visit your hideout. Combined with a Messagesystem and just the poe trade website stuff ingame we would have atleast something better. My opinion.

Sorry for my bad english. ^^

We need to keep exactly the same system in place, but enable asynchronous trade through an email system. The problem with trade is that you have to stop play to do it, both buyer and seller. Sellers typically don't want to.

Add email to the game and allow us to trade via that system exactly like we do now, but whenever both parties can get around to it.

Well actually it is problem of scalling. With easier trade more incentives directed toward trading for gear than grinding for gear. And I Dont think this game will become any better with increase trading activity. And people should kinda expect if they play game from "Grinding Gear Games" will spend most of times grinding. So they dont want to make trade too easy (to fend of trader), but didnt want to eliminate trade completely (a "few" sense of community for someone who give/seek it).

And this too. I dont know about it and i dont think it applied to GGG since POE releasing new content very fast (13 weeks) time. But there is some degree of fear about 'Players consume content too fast'. I think the one who release this statement is Blizzard about WoW. PoE content is already rich and fresh every 13 weeks so it might not be applied. But death exp pinalty, hard trade system, it is somekind of mitigation so "most" players didnt consume to fast.

Most of player that reach level 92 usually become bored with their build and make a new one. And praise poe passive tree, skill gem, and ascendancy there is multiple build to try on. There is exists some "min-maxers" too that want to enjoy playing it. I think in this PoE case content can be categorized into two, Wide content and Tall Content.

Wide content is PoE that have tons of build. Tall content is maximizing those build into the limit. With easier trade, tall content is easier to be achieved and its more incentivizing trading just the best of the best of gear. The fatique of consuming the tall content is higher than the fatique of consuming wide content. Like you dont need 200 mirror worth of gear to defeat uber elder. PoE want player not reach Tall content easily but still open the way for them with current trade system that viewed as impractical. Most people that have fatique after consuming tall content usually didnt play again for a while (higher chance to be arrogant), Meanwhile the one that consumed wide content might be still playing just in another build.

PoE designed the endgame not too hard that you need 200 mirror worth of gear. It try to balance the game around trading that you can beat endgame boss even without trading (SSF). I meant is unhealty to play Tall content too much. Clearly just beat uber elder and leave your char to new build.

I reread all that i have written and i think i lost focus about it. I think i just rambling. So Sorry about it

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Shagsbeard wrote:

We need to keep exactly the same system in place, but enable asynchronous trade through an email system. The problem with trade is that you have to stop play to do it, both buyer and seller. Sellers typically don't want to.

Add email to the game and allow us to trade via that system exactly like we do now, but whenever both parties can get around to it.

So you would like to use email trading to make it take even longer than is does now. Since the real reason most of us play or have played is/was to bash a bazillion creatures, originally run the 10 acts and some to play a build to at least 90, and try a myriad of different play styles (multiple builds), all we want is to gear and go and not have to fart around with a cumbersome trade system. So I see doing an email type of trading (with some kind of special code number for authenticating the trade) as adding another layer to the already cumbersome trade mechanic (another hoop to jump through). If anything were to be done by GGG (which apparently they aren't so you can rest assured knowing in your mind that "trading is ok") some form of instant messaging would be preferable as in "I'm playing and would like to trade now please" with no delays. Whether it be no response from the seller or a delayed response waiting for email communication it's all the same to me, trading is just too frustratingly clumsy and time consuming. The problem with my stating this is then I'm thrown into the "PoE needs an action house" group which I am definitely against. There has to be a middle ground to improving trade without going the full AH route.

Of course for me personally I don't care anymore as GGG's original choice of Softlayer as their game host has finally killed me out of playing PoE at all. With Networklayer quality of service severely deteriorating this year (overloaded and thus delaying/dropping data packets) the already problematic and super fussy PoE netcode (any Internet hiccups and it's "game over" trying to play) it has finally killed me out of being able to play. Every attempt to any of the 3 USA PoE realms ends quickly, after lag and freezing comes a dc in only a few minutes.

So for me it doesn't matter if GGG continues to do nothing to change/improve the trade mechanic, the bigger picture of not even getting a minimal level of QoP to play at all is abruptly ending my playing of PoE. Didn't quite get to a full 7 years (started in Dec. of 2012).

So continue to say in every trade thread "trading is fine". I'm out until I can get to any PoE realm that doesn't require my Internet link to use Networklayer.

It has to be time consuming... time is the only thing with value in this game. Every item we trade represents time in some abstract way.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

It has to be time consuming... time is the only thing with value in this game. Every item we trade represents time in some abstract way.

I definitely can see that being true from GGG's view. Since they would love for us to "play PoE forever", from their perspective the overly time consuming trading system is "working as intended". After all, the more we play PoE, the more we're likely to buy something. The flip side of this coin that GGG doesn't consider much (if at all) is the frustration of trading causing many (probably millions) to say after "where the hell are the sellers" and raised blood pressure after whispering dozens of times to say "trading sucks, to hell with this, I quit". There is no way to calculate the impact that a failing/failed trading system has on the % of players who have quit because they can't just "gear and go" in any reasonable amount of time. If GGG is happy with this (so far they seem to be) then if PoE lasts another decade then the same archaic/problematic trade function will probably still exist. As long as there's enough new blood to keep the player counts up over 10K daily and over 100K at league start then GGG is all too happy to ignore the trade function. It's their "elephant in the room" for which they definitely do not want to talk about.

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Currency flippers even with bots there is a delay to execute trade. They have to read the whisper, Invite the person who want to trade, Waiting the person come to hideout, trade and count the item, accept trade and kick the person out of the party. I think on average 20-30 second. With automated trading those troublesome step will be bypassed.(No Need doing all troublesome step above). More Trade Volume, More profit, More flippers join the fray.

Not really, bots don't have delay, they are programed to do all this things automatically and instantly, bots don't care about time or doing boring stuff, the only ones affected by a slow inefficient frustrating trade is legit players.
Second, if the API is removed and trade can only be accessed in game, bots lose a lot of the tools they have right now to "snipe" the market before everyone else making the difference between bots and non bots smaller instead of bigger.
If the fear for bots is too much they can add restrictions that affect mostly bots (ability to sell items locked behind killing map bosses, only x items/day, complex trade log, etc...).

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Since flip currency is fast they can expand scope of operations into other consumable for example t16 map. They autobuy all t16 map in the market that being sold as chaos, and put back into market as chisel. Since they already flipping currency might as well expand to consumables. Did you able to foresee this? You can only buy map from them but first you have to buy chisel from them.

This one is interesting, people flip because there is a profit margin in doing so, if everyone flips then the margin goes does down and suddenly flipping is not worth anymore, this causes less people to flip and prices to change again and the process loops.
If everyone traded their maps i really doubt anyone would be able to have currency to buy all the maps in the market, maps are dropping in huge quantities all the time for a huge number of players, its almost impossible to corner it. Only items with really low drop rates can be corned, and again this already happens now, so nothing new here.

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So before implementing automated market PoE might need single currency. But it might discourage player from picking low level currency.

Other options? Limit trade? Can only trade 2 times per hour? I Againts it.

What other options? Reduce filters that can be used? I also Againts it.

Some other options? item have to be unsold for 2 weeks before listed in automatic market? I Againts it.

Lets just stop think about automated trading. Just enjoy Grinding Gear Games spirit, Grinding to get Gear.

I find interesting that you are against a lot of changes that don't screw with your play time but "I think on average 20-30 second." time lost doing boring and often frustrating stuff is perfectly fine in a game (which main focus is having fun).

Moral of the history, as mllerchristian55 said, our market is already screwed beyond recognition and completely corrupt. Almost any changes to it would be beneficial at this point, in this we can include: full AH, consumables only AH, trading without leaving your map, play to trade, ingame market NPC, harsher RMT punishment, harsher anti-bot policies, ingame player shops, add trade restrictions.
In sum pretty much any change that happens will make the game more enjoyable in one way even if the change make trading even harder than now. The problem is not that they choose to make trade hard, its that hey made trade "hard" by making it frustrating and that is a really bad choice for a game.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

It has to be time consuming... time is the only thing with value in this game. Every item we trade represents time in some abstract way.

But it also has to be fun, because this is a game, and things in games should be fun. If the plan is to make it time consuming and frustrating without the fun pay off of overcoming frustrations, well then you should relegate it to a corner and not make it the central progression mechanic in your game. Don't make something like this game's trade system the best solution to every problem. Get rid of trading for things like crafting, and content accessibility.